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Forum: General

Topic: Anyone know exactly why Iha didn’t come back?

This topic contains 13 replies, has 2,355 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid BleedingTheOrchid 9 years, 8 months ago.

On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

I read an article saying something about Iha was too busy with his record label to come back. That sounds a little weak to me, what about all of us fans!? There has to be more to it than that, bitterness!

Ribbit...Toad-----------------Toads are really underated!!
Profile photo of darcysiva
Member
On darcysiva wrote:

i don’t know. but i imagine it has something to do with the fact that billy said james broke the band up too. who knows :P

"Until the bitter, bitter end of the world, yeah -- when God sleeps in bliss" ~ Soma.::SP freak since 1995::.http://www.spyber.com/sig-45413.png
Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

yeah, who knows?
he must have had his reasons… i think we need at least one more of the original pumpkins back, just to make it seem a bit more genuine smashing pumpkins… i know some critics are simply saying it’s billy corgan with ‘his smashing pumpkins hat on’ (ian winwood, in kerrangs! review of zeitgeist)
plus it would be better for the fans too =]

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of siamesescream
Member
On siamesescream wrote:

Yeah, I heard that when James isn’t working at his label and playing with APC he’s doing meth with the strokes and making porn with his dog bug

serve yourself. no one else can do for you like you and no one else fails like me. in my eyes i burn alive. fly like a bird, no more words just you and i high in the sky.
Profile photo of toad32r
Participant
On toad32r wrote:

Thats a pretty good answer….LOL

Ribbit...Toad-----------------Toads are really underated!!
Profile photo of captjack
Member
On CaptJack wrote:

Apparently the story goes like this.

Jimmy comes back to the Pumpkins. Billy is happy as they had not been the same on album or live without him. So he gets it in his head to conquer the world again.
They stage the Arising tour as a pseudo come-back.

Then D’arcy quits (she broke it to some of us after the Pittsburgh show, months before the accouncement.)
Billy is disappointed because the original lineup just got back together. But he decides to trudge on, replacing her on bass on some parts of Machina and all of the song Untitled. His thoughts are that Melissa Auf Der Maur is a great touring bassist but he only wants the original Pumpkins on the records after Adore and the drumming by committee.

Next, James decides that being in SP ruins his identity as an indie-rock, pop song/country ditty songwriter because people confuse SP as a metal band. Billy decides that the end of SP is here even though he was excited about getting it going again. He decides to make Machina the last album, and it has lyrics about the break up, especially This Time and Age of Innocence. He is disappointed but doesn’t want to bring new people into the band. (So he had this argument with himself that the fans are having with each other 7 years ago.). I believe that Tarantula is about getting SP going again and also about how people will not regard them as the real Pumpkins.

So James quit, after D’arcy quit and Billy was sad but didn’t want to sully the name with a revolving door of people. Thus Zwan is born and is what the Pumpkins would have been, especially with BC becoming Christian, just listen the the lyrics on Zeitgeist, not much different to Zwan, just a little darker in the political songs.

So if James quit in 2000 or so, I’m guessing he still wanted out in 2007, and it’s not like BC just left him behind. He just wanted to reclaiim his songs. \"we are the real cos someone gave us up\" Tarntula says.

BC also played all non drums music on Zeitgeist, so his desire to have the original 4 on the albums besides Adore (Which should have been a BC solo album in hindsight) is intact.

However, expect Ginger & Jeff on album by 2009 if he likes them. He learned from Zwan to \"Look before you leap, watch the company you keep, never fall asleep.\"

More proof that Machina was slated to be the big comeback to glory after Adore and to recapture the momentum of Mellon Collie that was lost when Jimmy was kicked out mid-tour:

It was supposed to be a double album and the studio wouldn’t allow it because of Adore’s low sales.
He expected to be able to release the second album later, but they nixed that, too.

So Machina was never meant to stand alone, the tracks were shifted to discuss the break up, and majesty of Mellon Collie was not repeated thanks to James & D’arcy.

And thanks to Jimmy for stopping their momentum dead in its tracks with his drug expulsion.

So, really, is BC the jerk they make him out to be? No.

He does have a lot of integrity and I think that confuses people.

The reason the Pumpkins are back is becuase his bandmates in Zwan (minus Jimmy) were horrible people, or else Zwan would continue in SP’s stead. And the reason James & D’arcy are not there is because they quit at the time when he got his band back and derailed his plans.

Long live Smashing Pumpkins.
He always played 75% of the parts any ways.

Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

Apparently the story goes like this.

Jimmy comes back to the Pumpkins. Billy is happy as they had not been the same on album or live without him. So he gets it in his head to conquer the world again.
They stage the Arising tour as a pseudo come-back.

Then D’arcy quits (she broke it to some of us after the Pittsburgh show, months before the accouncement.)
Billy is disappointed because the original lineup just got back together. But he decides to trudge on, replacing her on bass on some parts of Machina and all of the song Untitled. His thoughts are that Melissa Auf Der Maur is a great touring bassist but he only wants the original Pumpkins on the records after Adore and the drumming by committee.

Next, James decides that being in SP ruins his identity as an indie-rock, pop song/country ditty songwriter because people confuse SP as a metal band. Billy decides that the end of SP is here even though he was excited about getting it going again. He decides to make Machina the last album, and it has lyrics about the break up, especially This Time and Age of Innocence. He is disappointed but doesn’t want to bring new people into the band. (So he had this argument with himself that the fans are having with each other 7 years ago.). I believe that Tarantula is about getting SP going again and also about how people will not regard them as the real Pumpkins.

So James quit, after D’arcy quit and Billy was sad but didn’t want to sully the name with a revolving door of people. Thus Zwan is born and is what the Pumpkins would have been, especially with BC becoming Christian, just listen the the lyrics on Zeitgeist, not much different to Zwan, just a little darker in the political songs.

So if James quit in 2000 or so, I’m guessing he still wanted out in 2007, and it’s not like BC just left him behind. He just wanted to reclaiim his songs. "we are the real cos someone gave us up" Tarntula says.

BC also played all non drums music on Zeitgeist, so his desire to have the original 4 on the albums besides Adore (Which should have been a BC solo album in hindsight) is intact.

However, expect Ginger & Jeff on album by 2009 if he likes them. He learned from Zwan to "Look before you leap, watch the company you keep, never fall asleep."

More proof that Machina was slated to be the big comeback to glory after Adore and to recapture the momentum of Mellon Collie that was lost when Jimmy was kicked out mid-tour:

It was supposed to be a double album and the studio wouldn’t allow it because of Adore’s low sales.
He expected to be able to release the second album later, but they nixed that, too.

So Machina was never meant to stand alone, the tracks were shifted to discuss the break up, and majesty of Mellon Collie was not repeated thanks to James & D’arcy.

And thanks to Jimmy for stopping their momentum dead in its tracks with his drug expulsion.

So, really, is BC the jerk they make him out to be? No.

He does have a lot of integrity and I think that confuses people.

The reason the Pumpkins are back is becuase his bandmates in Zwan (minus Jimmy) were horrible people, or else Zwan would continue in SP’s stead. And the reason James & D’arcy are not there is because they quit at the time when he got his band back and derailed his plans.

Long live Smashing Pumpkins.
He always played 75% of the parts any ways.[/quote:2thpk6ni]
umm wow
havent got much to say :lol:
but im sure BC cant be COMPLETELY absolved from blame… he must play SOME part in the bands break up… maybe not a huge part at all, just a part

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

sorry too drunk and tired now to understand, but it makes sense. i love billy, really. long live billy, long live da pumpkins! and iha…. uhmmm… well… cool guy i presume, but jeff enjoyed himself at live earth and i think he’s gonna be better as iha. mark my words. i’m off.

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
Profile photo of captjack
Member
On CaptJack wrote:

I didn’t mean to insinuate that Billy should be absolved of blame for the break up.
To the contrary, being a megalamaniac doesn’t help relations with band mates and friends.

It does, however, make for real good music when you have the talent to back it up.

Also, Billy could have decided to continue SP with just he and Billy 7 years ago and had another 3 albums under his belt, so techincally he did break them up. I do respect him wanting only the original 4, though, and I think it was a tribute to that ideal that led him to have only he and Jimmy on Zeitgeist.

Moving forward, though, it would be mean to keep Ginger & Jeff off future albums if they stick around. They are more like employees right now, but maybe they will become friends.

I felt worse for Melissa than James or D’arcy because it wasn’t her choice to be left out. James and D’arcy would have said no if they had been asked (imho) and I’m not sure he didn’t put the feelers out to them. But, it’s almost like he didn’t want Melissa because that would have made here one of 5 permanent members. Even Matt Walker was never considered a full member and he saved their butts on tour in more ways than one.

Jimmy on Shame and Pug rock the socks though live.

Adore would have been a much different album with Jimmy on board and if you add his version of Pug (I think Shame is about Jimmy so it may not have even been written), Eye, and Let Me Give the World to You included with a more organic, less compressed production style. There would have been no perceived drop off after MCIS. That’s why I respect Billy as an artist. Instead of \"(faking) it for just one more (album)\" and making big hits, he wrote what he felt on Adore and Machina about Jimmy’s foibles, his mother’s death and the break up of the band mixed with his new found faith.

Profile photo of toad32r
Participant
On toad32r wrote:

Billy Corgan is and always has been the driving force to The Pumpkins. As far as whos fault it is…. life is life. The creative mind that BC has, i think, allows him to have a little ….ego, or structure to the music in the way he wants and expects it to be. Creative integrity should be shown when the mind child of your own is born, its more like a pride in what you have created. So rock on Billy Corgan, rock on SP, rock on, and on, and on!!! Billy, KEEP IT COMIN’!

Ribbit...Toad-----------------Toads are really underated!!
Profile photo of toad32r
Participant
On toad32r wrote:

After reading the response to my original question of wheres Iha, i have another. Is Zeitgeist part of just a reunion, or is it the beginning of The Pumpkins rebirth? I have been thinking of this as a one time only, its over soon reunion. Now im thinking this could be something thats gonna be around for awhile. Ohhh, please say its so, longer the better………Corgan for president

Ribbit...Toad-----------------Toads are really underated!!
Profile photo of captjack
Member
On CaptJack wrote:

When Billy said he wanted his Pumpkins back and his songs back, he meant it.

This is for keeps.

As he says (to Jimmy?) in Tarantula, \"Don’t Break This Oath\"

This is for keeps, and is the rebirth. In the deluxe album (not sure of the standard) there is a picture of the funeral of the old Pumpkins.

Long live the new.

Under the new Pumpkins no one will be able to break it up unless Jimmy quits or falls off the wagon or whatever. If Ginger or Jeff quit, Billy will find new band mates. And so on.

Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

When Billy said he wanted his Pumpkins back and his songs back, he meant it. T his is for keeps. As he says (to Jimmy?) in Tarantula, "Don’t Break This Oath"

This is for keeps, and is the rebirth. In the deluxe album (not sure of the standard) there is a picture of the funeral of the old Pumpkins. Long live the new. Under the new Pumpkins no one will be able to break it up unless Jimmy quits or falls off the wagon or whatever. If Ginger or Jeff quit, Billy will find new band mates. And so on.[/quote:btfm6lo7]

you know what captjack, i agree with you. very much actually. i also do believe billy is a sincere, genuine and honest person when he talks about his dreams. he has this bond with jimmy, and they are a great team. all other musicians, how cool and great they might be, are probably only enjoying themselves and being uplifted in the shade of this extremely creative guy called billy. which is still a great gift when you think of it. and it works like that in many other bands also. muse, rolling stones, elvis presley, to name a few. we shouldn’t care so much about it and just enjoy what billy and co bring us, judge that from song to song, and pick our favourites. james iha in the track? you like the track or you don’t. james iha not in it? you like the track or you don’t. it doesn’t ruin the pumpkins concept, just my humble opinion.

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

After reading the response to my original question of wheres Iha, i have another. Is Zeitgeist part of just a reunion, or is it the beginning of The Pumpkins rebirth?[/quote:2homg9u1]
you posted the president part already, let me post that one for you. new topic coming! interesting question.

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness

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