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Topic: Are you religious? Do you believe in god(s)?

This topic contains 54 replies, has 6,644 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid BleedingTheOrchid 9 years, 8 months ago.

On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

Outside this board I had a pretty cool discussion with someone about this subject the last few days. It was a long time ago I talked so intense & detailed about it. But I wonder how you guys on this board think & feel about this. Please, be as respectful as usual.

My answers to the 2 questions are: No, but I do have my personal beliefs (*). No, certainly not.

(*) I used the explanation of Wikipedia to answer this question.

\"A religion is a social institution that includes a set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people, often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term \"religion\" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.\"

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

No and no.

but if i had to be religious, i’d be pastafarian. the Flying Spaghetti Monster is, frankly, the best god out there. Flimsy moral standards, pirates are divine beings, and heaven is a beer volcano and a stripper factory! what’s not to love :lol:

visit http://www.venganza.org for more information :)

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Good one Superlordspamulon. I just love the serious and ironic comments on posts like this:

http://www.venganza.org/2007/10/21/is-this-a-joke.htm

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

I know. it is quite brilliant :D

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Americans are brilliant. Read this. Found the link on that website. :lol:

http://www.ketv.com/news/14133442/detail.html

Anyway, in this discussion I mentioned before I reached some thoughts that might be helpful to start a discussion here.

\"Religion with external designers and silly rituals is not the way to go. Not for me at least. My truth is inside me, not outside at some god. I am my personal god, and every single person is his/her own god. Every animal is a god. Every tree, flame, stone, drip of water, gush of wind is a designer without control. Maybe that’s my belief… I don’t know…\"

And there was a pro-religious argument stating \"First, there is the ontological argument. This argument basically says that since over 98% of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, on all continents believe in the existence of God – there must be something (or someone) causing this belief.\"

I responded like this:

\"I’m not very impressed by the ontological argument. The majority of Germans allowed Hitler to kill millions of Jews and other people in the 1930’s and 1940’s. All people on earth believed the earth was flat, and we would fell off when we would sail to far to the edge. There are many other examples like this, so I rest my case for the moment, when it is about people. People can be extremely blind, following things that are not good, that’s all I want to say.\"

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

One of my favourite little arguments against the idea of the Christian God, which i picked up elsewhere, is this:

2 of the defining aspects of God is that he is omnipotent and benevolent; without these, he is not God.
Now there is suffering in the world. If he was benevolent and omnipotent he would get rid of it. If he did not wish to get rid of it, then he is not benevolent. If he did wish to, but cannot, he is not omnipotent. As there is suffering in the world, the commonly believed Christian idea of God is therefore redundant: losing either one or the other of His defining aspects.

Benevolent mught not be the best word however… omni-benevolent or all-loving would probably be better… *muses upon this*

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Good points all around. I’ve always struggled with accepting Christianity. I don’t know a whole hell of a lot about it, and won’t pretend to.

I do know that the King James version of the Bible was rejected numerous times before a version that suited the king was created. This is a huge pile of shit. Right there, you have divine word converted into interpreted word, and not even a direct translation. A translation that suited the king. And this is the main version followed by Christians today. Seems like in order to put faith into a book so subjective at this point, is very lame.

So, I used to think about evolution. Like, what is the ultimate form of life. Of energy. Only thing I could come up with is light. Not saying we will evolve into light, but light is so mysterious to me. It has particle and wave properties. It bends. It travels at 3000 m/s. Inherent within light is delay. I.E. when you look at galaxies or stars that are 100s or millions of light years away, you are looking into the past. Our interpretation of our surroundings are solely based upon light, how it’s traveling, etc. But it’s only a snapshot. Light is made up of 7 distinct colors, that are white when combined. Within those 7 colors, an infinite amount of colors are also contained within the transitions. Light is awesome. It’s all around, at all times.

Another thing I think about is heavy elements (iron, other metals) that are contained within our own bodies are only made from the death of stars (novas or supernovas). That’s it. So we are walking stars. In the most literal of senses. Think about that for a second.

Then think about the fact that you are a single entity, in your mind. However, you are made up of billions of cells, and those cells are made up of billions of elements. All these elements are different ages. You are a walking filter. Always taking in more and shedding just as much (in adulthood). So your makeup is always changing. And these elements could range in age from 1 year to 4.6 billion years. And that’s just our universe. So your fingernail could be billions of years older than the mole adjacent to it. Mind-blowing.

Which brings fractals into it. We take a microscope, we see cells, then compounds, then elements, then atoms, then electrons, protons, neutrons. Then quarks. Keeps going. Then we go the other way. We see continents, planets, solar systems, galaxies, then ultimately, the universe. Keeps going this way.

It’s anoetic. The human mind cannot begin to comprehend it’s place or purpose in this universe. In this time. We are so insignificant, it’s breathtaking.

So where does religion fit into all of this? I suppose for me, it does not really matter. I’m pretty sure I’m made up partly of a lot of dead people, animals, trees, etc. It’s like a revolving cycle. I think religion is just something we made up to deal with the ultimate fear that we have no fucking clue what is truly \"out there\".

That’s my speil. Thanks for listening. It’s all opinion, so take it for what it’s worth. Which in the grand scheme, is absolutely nothing. :D

in my time of dying
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Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

And there was a pro-religious argument stating "First, there is the ontological argument. This argument basically says that since over 98% of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, on all continents believe in the existence of God – there must be something (or someone) causing this belief."

[/quote:2ofighos]

There are different types of civilizations throughout the history of the world. What’s interesting is that there is a correlation between the types of civiliations and the type of god(s) they believed in. Indians/Mayan believed in creationism. Romans had polytheism. Right? God, religion is the worst. Anyway, that 98% thing, first of all, where did that come from? Just because Akhenaten believed that Ra was the Sun God, and pushed this belief on his followers, doesn’t mean that you can say that all those people truly believed it. I bet that 98% is skewed beyond belief. Just like as many people who claim to believe in God, might be saying that for fear of reprimand or because they are too narrow-minded to question it.

I think the reason that we all believe in "something" is because we’ve all had that moment where we go, wait a minute. WTF is this? Really! WTF am I doing? WTF am I doind HERE? Right now? WTF? And that’s all you can say…so we come up with religion to explain what we cannot ever understand and also what we fear. The unknown. We explain it all away with stories and fables about the holy and spiritual. It comforts us. We are human. I think it’s part of what makes us human.

So you have contemplaters, throughout history, men with a lot of time on their hands. They think. They come up with explanations for what they are seeing everyday. For death. For birth. For rain. For conquering other countries. For killing other men. It’s all a big power struggle. You just need enough sheep to follow you around and you can shepherd the world.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

Good points manillascissor, but allow me to elaborate on them/correct them (depending on the points)

The editing of the bible didn’t start at King James. The bible was compiled from various texts in ancient Rome, i believe in the reign of Emperor Constantine. These texts were written originally in Hebrew, and therefore there would be some mistranslation. Also, the Romans would try to incorporate other religions into their religion when conquering new lands, in order to strengthen the Empire. It would be no great leap of logic to assume that the Bible also took a similar fate: edited to appeal to the Romans, to make it be accepted more readily. this is quite apparent when you consider that Christmas replaced what was called Saturnalia. Believe me, it was more or less the same festival. Look it up on wikipedia :)

Note: energy is not a tangible thing. it is merely an idea, conjured by physicists to better explain what goes on around them. And you’re right by how everything we judge is based on light :) Oh, and there aren’t 7 colours. there is an infinite number, Isaac Newton simply chose 7 because he liked the number. If you are going for \"definable\" levels of colours, though, technically there are 9 : ultraviolet beyond the blue on the visible spectrum, and infrared beyond the red on the visible spectrum.

Technically, the idea about us being walking stars is true. Most of the elements exist purely out of the levels of energy elements such as Helium and Hydrogen underwent during supernovas etc.

We are made up of billion cells. We are not however made up of billions of elements. there aren’t billions of elements. look at a periodic table; that details every element that has ever existed, that has been recorded (i use the past tense as some elements were made under labratory conditons and lasted for only a few nanoseconds before decomposing). And… uh… everything is the same age. All that has existed has always existed – but on a microscopic level. i.e, the level of electrons/protons/neutrons/quarks has remained constant, just in different staes. (boy i’m being pedantic)

and yeah, the depth of the universe is scary :?
to be that unnecessary in everything… whoa.

however, we are both wholly insignifcant and completely significant. You are one tiny spec in the whole place of existence; one atom of a grain of sand on a beach. however, you will only ever live this life from your perspective; your life is the longest thing you will ever experience. so there’s your significance :)

and i completely agree about what religion is. it’s a comfort blanket for the ignorant who are afraid to accept that they are completely ignorant. But we are all completely ignorant, just some are slightly less ignorant than other :wink:

except billy. who knows exactly where he is.
who knows the meaning of it all
who knows the distance to the sun
who knows the echo that is love
who knows the secrets in your spires
who knows the emptiness of youth
who knows the solitude of heart
who knows the murmurs of the soul
and who knows the silence of the world.

And except Chuck Norris.

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

There are different types of civilizations throughout the history of the world. What’s interesting is that there is a correlation between the types of civiliations and the type of god(s) they believed in. Indians/Mayan believed in creationism. Romans had polytheism. Right? God, religion is the worst. Anyway, that 98% thing, first of all, where did that come from? Just because Akhenaten believed that Ra was the Sun God, and pushed this belief on his followers, doesn’t mean that you can say that all those people truly believed it. I bet that 98% is skewed beyond belief. Just like as many people who claim to believe in God, might be saying that for fear of reprimand or because they are too narrow-minded to question it.[/quote:s9ww6eto]

That is very true; in America, there are a significant number of people who claim to be christian, yet only do so out of peer pressure or because they think that that’s what they’re meant to do. However, more and more people are realising that it’s becoming acceptable to be a self-declared Atheist/Agnostic.
But there is still pressure: a majority of American voters said that they wouldn’t vote an Atheist into power, despite an Atheistical perspective possibly being better (less religious bias)

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Wow, what a cool topic this is already. Let me quote the rest to that ontological thing I mentioned before, it fits nicely now.

\"People can be extremely blind, following things that are not good, that’s all I want to say. But next to people I want to mention all living creatures on earth, that don’t do anything on religion. Well, that’s what I presume at least, because we can’t be to sure I guess. But mankind on a whole is only a little part of what lives on earth. We people have some silly instinct that makes us wonder, makes us fearful and wants us to control the fear. Here you go, the food for religion (*). We can talk, we can think, we can write. We want to be in a group, we cannot live alone. But do all billions and billions of living animals do the same? No. As I think the universe and everything inside it is one, I cannot accept that just this few people on earth know the truth by a bible, and by being religious. We only know how to use our brains for about 30%, and we only know very little about our feelings. We do not know the truth, and we have to accept it. I do accept that fact (well, I do my best anyway :P ), and it gives so much peace, you wouldn’t believe it! :D It gives so much room for this childish wonder about the amazing universe, and exploring the deepest things inside people. In this whole process I realized there is no truth, and what we like to call the truth is just something we agree on as mankind, and it changes every year, every 10 years and every 100 years.\"

(*) this referred to another part I wrote earlier on:

\"This religion stuffs is all made up by mankind long time ago. It started, I think, when mankind realised they had this little unexplainable feelings of fear. Neanderthaler times somewhere. Fear to have no food, fear to have no next day, fear to have no sunshine, fear to have no rain for the crops, etc… So they started to have rituals and prayings and things, to control the fear. When this religion thing started, also people that wanted to control other people raised and caused tons of troubles, for many many centuries. <edit> Einstein once said \"I cannot accept any concept of God based on the fear of life or the fear of death or blind faith.\". Very true those words.\"

Just think of it… When a bible-like book provides us with the ultimate truth… Then why do we need to fight bloody wars to prove we are more right then other people with another bible with another truth? No idea, but pretty stupid behaviour anyway, which is still inside this religious concept till today. And in this religious concept you can also presume the bible and things are a tool of the devil instead of a loving god. Because it makes us kill each other, it makes us fear the future. So very likely mankind will realise at some point this is not the way to go. There is no devil, there is no god. There are many things out there to explore which I cannot explain, but the concept of religion and all that comes with it, build up in centuries, is a timewaster anyway to me.

Now bring in the christians/muslims/hindoes etc. please, I want to hear the other opinions too!

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Member
On Tree_Spirit wrote:

Outside this board I had a pretty cool discussion with someone about this subject the last few days. It was a long time ago I talked so intense & detailed about it. [/quote:1r89d9wg]

I wonder who that person was *whistles lightly* :P
I still need to reply to you Arthur,time so restrict me lately.
I enjoy and look forward to chats with ya .You’re one awesomely kwel non-believer..lol..Wish I could change that😛

I think anyone that knows me,knows I’m a very *Religious*person.I personally believe that the complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today. Many examples showing God’s design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth…its size is perfect. The Earth’s size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth’s surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth’s position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet it restrains our massive oceans from spilling over across the continents.

Water…colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You’ll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.

Water is also chemically inert. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth’s water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.

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Member
On Tree_Spirit wrote:

The human brain…simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of computer mouse in your hand. Your brain registers emotional responses, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain processes more than a million messages a second. Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information…can we say mere chance brought about such an astounding organ?

When NASA launches a shuttle mission, it is assumed a monkey didn’t write the plan, but intelligent and knowledgeable minds. How does one explain the existence of the human brain? Only a mind more intelligent and knowledgeable than humanity could have created the human brain.

This doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface,that things were created by a designer.If you actually sit and think about how complex we are as human beings .We are to unique just happen randomly and so is are universe.

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Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

You’re one awesomely kwel non-believer..lol..Wish I could change that:P[/quote:2v6yl9sq]
You can change the awesome part (really, I do have a very nasty side), however you cannot change the non-believer part. I believe in non-believing, it controls (and at the same time opens up) the beauty, the chaos and the inner moral for me. :P

Glad you found your way here also Tree_Spirit! After an almost-pastafarian and an agnost we got the christian point of view also.

PS Tree_Spirit, your texts have partly disappeared, this board has some maximum lenght… Don’t know why… Use the "Preview" button to check before you post. Or the "Edit" button to correct later. Post shorter pieces in multiple posts. (And I just noticed you found your way in that :D )

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Question to Tree_Spirit:

Can your almighty creator create a stone he cannot lift?

Think of it… No christian ever could answer this question to me so far.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Pipoka
Member
On Pipoka wrote:

I believe in God. My mother is very religious and i had a christian education.

I’m not a \"religious\" person, if we are talking about going to church and participate on those \"rituals\" related with religion. I had that experiences in my life, they were very important to me at that time, but i don’t find them important to me in this time of my life.

But i strongly desagree when Super says

and i completely agree about what religion is. it’s a comfort blanket for the ignorant who are afraid to accept that they are completely ignorant. But we are all completely ignorant, just some are slightly less ignorant than other

Of course that we are talking about masses, and there are exceptions, but i don’t think that religious people are afraid to accept ignorance. We are all ingnorant, being religious or not. Many of the religious people that i know are very counscious about that ignorance and believing in God, is not a way to feel less or more ignorant than those who don’t believe.

I just respect both who believe and don’t believe, but i do not understand why both sides tend to criticize the other.
Being religious, to me, is not negative, if you use your own brain to question things, and not acept by truth what other tell you. If it helps you in your life, If it makes you feel good about yourself, why not being religious?

For me it is a very simple thing. Those who believe can be happy with that, and those who don’t believe are happy without it, and that’s it. But no one is more clarified than the other, or less ignorant, or whatever, for being (or not) religious.

Working in health give a lot of experiences with people, and i can tell you that, most of the times, when people get very sick, those who claimed to be agnostic start to feel different about faith and god, and sometimes at the end they say that they believe in god now, or even became religious people. Just like the oposite it is true also.

(A little break for recieving the man that came here to fix my modem, broke up my thought… so, i’m not inspired anymore! i guess i will post again if someone replies my comment ;) )

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Member
On Tree_Spirit wrote:

Question to Tree_Spirit:

Can your almighty creator create a stone he cannot lift?

Think of it… No christian ever could answer this question to me so far.[/quote:1efzd2me]

Thats a paradox, not a real theological problem.But I’ll address it to what i can.
Let me ask you this then.Stop and think about how illogical that question is.Then I’ll ask you my question.Now we are looking at GOD as real now so to speak.And I’ve seen this question ask so many times.So many debates over it also.This question ,is one that is used in certain circles to try to discredit God’s"power"and trying to place a limitation onto God’s power.We all as believer’s know, God has only one limitation that he cannot lie or do evil.

Can God make two plus two equal six?

This is a question which is frequently asked by skeptics and by children. We reply by asking how much power it would take to bring about this result. The absurdity of the question is not too difficult to see. Would the power of a ton of dynamite make two plus two equal six? Or the power of an atom bomb? Or of a hydrogen bomb? When these questions are asked it is readily seen that the truth of the multiplication tables is not in the realm of power. Power has nothing to do with it. When we assert that God is omnipotent, we are talking about power. In the discussion of the infinite, eternal, and unchangeable truth of God we shall show that truth is of the very essence of His character but not in the realm of power; and we shall consider those Scriptures which plainly declare that ‘it is impossible for God to lie’ (Heb. 6:18)

Most of the "paradoxes" commit this same basic error. Even those that seem to deal with "power" such as "Can God create an immovable stone" are actually asking if God can bring about a logically contradictory state of affairs. The answer is no, but it does not show that God does not have infinite power or that God cannot do with power anything that power can do. Power cannot bring into being a contradictory state of affairs.

God is omnipotent and omniscient. You can’t get much more powerful than that. God’s power is therefore absolute.God can decide to do anything. God can then change His mind and undo it all so that He never did it in the first place. God can tell the truth.Since God’s power is absolute, his power isn’t even limited by Time, Probability, or Logic, because it all flows from Him in the first place. He is indeed the alpha and the omega; everything between and everything beyond.

Thanks for debate as always!
stay kwel!

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Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

I don’t believe in anything.

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Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

If you are going for "definable" levels of colours, though, technically there are 9 : ultraviolet beyond the blue on the visible spectrum, and infrared beyond the red on the visible spectrum.

[/quote:j8o8qw5a]

Yes, seeing as how these are not inside the visible spectrum, I decided to eliminate them from the competition. ;) That’s like saying microwaves are next on one side, then gamma. I was referring to the visible spectrum only.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

We are made up of billion cells. We are not however made up of billions of elements. there aren’t billions of elements. look at a periodic table; that details every element that has ever existed, that has been recorded (i use the past tense as some elements were made under labratory conditons and lasted for only a few nanoseconds before decomposing). And… uh… everything is the same age. All that has existed has always existed – but on a microscopic level. i.e, the level of electrons/protons/neutrons/quarks has remained constant, just in different staes. (boy i’m being pedantic)

[/quote:2sx8oxbf]

Ok, yes, again, I see what you’re saying, but we are indeed made up of billions of elements when you consider the possibitlity, rather, necessity that you are allowed to use one or more of the same element. I.E. 2 Hydrogens, 3 Heliums, 147,322 Irons, etc. Billions upon billions.

All that has existed has always existed. Now you sound religious. ;) Such an absolute!!!

Anyway, I disagree when you consider that mass can turn into energy, and vice versa. I know you think energy is intangible, however, when those hydrogens and heliums turn into heavy metal machines, a certain part of the reaction is converted into heat. I’m sure another portion may be converted into light, otherwise, you wouldn’t see supernovas. Anyway, I’m no expert on these things, but when you consider the ins and outs of these two universals, mass and energy, things are created and destroyed. Or rather, converted from one to the other.

Essentially, what I’m saying is that all elements are not the same age. They are born, converted, or converted, then born.

Which brings us to our next topic: Entropy. Would anyone like to get this started?

in my time of dying
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

That is very true; in America, there are a significant number of people who claim to be christian, yet only do so out of peer pressure or because they think that that’s what they’re meant to do. However, more and more people are realising that it’s becoming acceptable to be a self-declared Atheist/Agnostic.
But there is still pressure: a majority of American voters said that they wouldn’t vote an Atheist into power, despite an Atheistical perspective possibly being better (less religious bias)[/quote:43ret7qs]

This is not really a shock. What this means to me, again, just to me, is that atheists/agnostics are probably comfortable voting in a religious follower to lead their country rather than one of their own. Why? Because they are smart enough not to rock the boat. Again, if 98% believe, fuck it, let em.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

I don’t believe in anything.[/quote:39b55qw3]

If you don’t fall for anything, you’ll stand for something.

*Please, someone get this……..please.

in my time of dying
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Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Now bring in the christians/muslims/hindoes etc. please, I want to hear the other opinions too![/quote:1ylcrwu3]

Agree. Thank you Tree Spirit.

in my time of dying
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Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

[/quote:2mnr2zav]

Two things: you say yourself here, only known planet. Which acquiescently acknowledges that another may exist. Or rather, does exist. As you have shown, the complexity is amazing. But also amazing are the odds that it could happen by chance alone when you think of how many stars and how many galaxies are out there. I know it seems like a design, and you may be right about that. But saying all of this cannot happen by chance, just because it’s too perfect, I don’t see the logic. Think about how many examples there are of it not working. Like you say, we, humans, humans in this timeframe of 2007, which is a made up reference point, but a reference point nonetheless, don’t know of any other examples of life outside of our own little solar system. When you think about the possibility though, that it could happen elsewhere, even if not human, that life could exist. I mean, it’s astounding. And can go the other way too. Maybe you’re right. Maybe our designer is a complete moron. And he/she got it really really really wrong A LOT of…..

A LOT

of times. Like a 6th grader with a 1 average at mid-term. That’s almost just as unlikely. But possible. They key word is possible.

I guess I’ll use the old comparison, if you put enough monkeys in a room for a long enough time, they will eventually write the Bible. Eh, I’ve never QUITE believed this, but, maybe when dealing with true infinity, it’s possible? Not sure.

Also, do you separate animals and humans into two categories on purpose, and if so, why?

in my time of dying
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Question to Tree_Spirit:

Can your almighty creator create a stone he cannot lift?

Think of it… No christian ever could answer this question to me so far.[/quote:26w0synz]

All right, scientist Arthur. Put your chemical faceguard on… ;)

What happens when an unstoppable object comes into contact with an immoveable object?

in my time of dying

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