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Forum: Philosophical Forum

Topic: believe

This topic contains 39 replies, has 6,034 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of doubtful-della Doubtful-Della 8 years, 7 months ago.

On Doubtful-Della wrote:

What to you believe. Will god reach out for you and let you join paradise ? Or do you believe your soul will be one with the planet? Or do you believe in reincarnation? Or do you believe in absolutely nothing?

In loving memory of Bimbolin.
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Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

holy crap. this thread could get out of control. i’m in the middle of this conversation in email with a friend of mine.

once i respond to her, i’ll post it in here.

in my time of dying
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Member
On Pipoka wrote:

Really i’m not sure what i believe in.
But i’m not worried too.
I like to believe that my soul will achieve peace and that’s all. Oh and that i will find all the people that i love and that have already passed way.

But this is what i like to believe :wink:

i’m not sure about reincarnation… and i think the word paradise is just a sinonym for peace.

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On Anonymous wrote:

hmmm…
I guess I just believe there is a higher power that has created us. I don’t think it’s something physical you can see, but you can feel it’s energy…
i’m going to have to think about this..
I guess I am open to whatever it is…..
as far as reincarnation-who knows
I’ve read we all have been reincarnated to keep learning the things we need to know before we get to our final destination-whether I believe that or not-not sure-interesting though

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On Superlordspamulon wrote:

I believe that we live in a material universe i.e one composed of matter and energy. There is nothing spiritual, be it God, ghosts or reincarnation. I find it difficult to comprehend that people can hold unwavering belief that there is an all powerful God who will answer any prayer, despite all conflicting evidence (There was a scientific trial for this – a lot of medical patients were divided into four categories – those who knew they were being prayed for, those who didn’t know they were being prayed for, those who knew they weren’t being prayed for, and those who didn’t know they weren’t being prayed for. The recovery rates were all the same to within a certain margin, except for the people who didn’t know they were being prayed for. Peculiarly. It was considered an anomalous result.) and that the same God loves absolutely everybody. Except homosexuals. And bisexuals. And Jews. And Muslims. And Atheists. And just about any non-believer. And anybody from a different denomination.

I just don’t understand how people can believe in all that. Also, I can’t believe the sheer idiocy of some of the believers (not all) and even worse, the ridiculously disgusting levels of hypocrisy shown at times.

I just find that logic, common sense and science seems to show that there is nothing ‘supernatural’.

So apparently I don't post very often these days
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Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

I’m on the same level as Superlordspamulon on this matter. However, I would never criticise the personal benefits, or joy, or any other good feeling for that matter, a \"believing\" person says he or she’s getting from his/her beliefs. But the whole concept of religion is not very attractive to me either.

Which reminds me of a nice conversation I had in the SPfreaks chatroom with manillascissor a little while back, about \"faith vs fact\" or \"religion vs science\". Maybe he wants to copy it here, I don’t know. It was quite interesting.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

I’m on the same level as Superlordspamulon on this matter. However, I would never criticise the personal benefits, or joy, or any other good feeling for that matter, a "believing" person says he or she’s getting from his/her beliefs. But the whole concept of religion is not very attractive to me either.

Which reminds me of a nice conversation I had in the SPfreaks chatroom with manillascissor a little while back, about "faith vs fact" or "religion vs science". Maybe he wants to copy it here, I don’t know. It was quite interesting.[/quote:1tg8su83]

Um, i was going to, but I accidentally X’d out the box. I feel like a huge TOOL. sorry arthur. :(

in my time of dying
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On Anonymous wrote:

at least you can use chat for conversations…
organized religion is not my thing. I don’t criticize someone for going, I just don’t think it’s necessary. As for being ill in a hospital-and prayer and vs. no prayer eh-I’ll just keep am open mind that my body is physical and my mind/soul/thoughts whatever you wanna call it, is not! Where does that go? once your gone it’s all gone? No way!

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On bullettwoutbutterflywings wrote:

well for me, i was brought up in an organized religion, southern baptist (scary i know). but as i grew up i felt detached from it. and i have looked into many religoins. the one that i feel most in tune with is buddhism. i belive in rencarnation, as i am pretty sure i have had past lives. and i hope to be a better person every day. although it doesn’t always work. i am trying to find a temple in my area, but not so easy.

i think that god is a nice idea, the loving one, not the one that most people portray him/her to be. but i don’t know that god is out there. if you learn about the bible’s beginings it is kinda hard to take it at face value, which is what church wants you to do.

but i think that any religon that teaches love and acceptace is fine by me. we all need more of that, i try to be that way, but people make it so hard.

"shiny, let's be bad guys"--jayne cobb-the hero of canton
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On Im a Cult Hero wrote:

I’d be another who doesn’t believe in anything.
You live, then you die and thats it, theres no great mystery to it all IMO.
At the same time, I respect everyones right to believe whatever they want, and to practice those beliefs freely……to a point.
I say to a point, because while everyone should have the right to have whatever beliefs they want, they do not have the right to push those beliefs upon others, or infringe upon their personal freedoms.
Nor should any religion have any influence on Politics or Law, I believe that generally to maintain any real level of justice and fairness within both Politics and Law : both must be secular.

I don’t want to drag the thread off topic as all this stuff really interests me, but I feel this is connected to the OP.
Basically for those that believe in an afterlife of some description : What shape (not literally) does this take?

I’ve always found the concepts of Heaven & Hell for example difficult to wrap my head around, mainly for the reason that to me : any eternal existance would be a torture.

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On Anonymous wrote:

love and acceptace is fine by me. we all need more of that, i try to be that way, but people make it so hard.[/quote:1l4qa31c]

that’s a GREAT saying bullet 8) more than great enough for sunglasses

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On bullettwoutbutterflywings wrote:

well i think that if there was a heaven it would be like in the book by fannie flagg (great southern author btw, she wrote fried green tomatoes, better book than movie, you should read some of her books) but the name of the book is Can’t Wait to Get to Heaven and it is just a regular looking place, the place where you love to be.

but in buddhism you are reborn untill you are free from craving and ignorance, and then your mind attains Nirvana.

"shiny, let's be bad guys"--jayne cobb-the hero of canton
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On Anonymous wrote:

Well I guess I am stuck here 4 ever-cravings of SP music..lol..
I get what your saying
I have been reading a little tiny amount on Buddhism, but not a whole lot. I have loved what I have read that’s for sure. It seems pure…

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On Marcella wrote:

I am a Catholic who really does believes in what I was raised to believe. Of course I respect every single belief different than mine and I am really open-minded.

Fevrale dostat chernil i plakatPisat O Fevrale navsnrydPoka grohochushaya slyakotVesnoyu charnoyu gorit
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On Superlordspamulon wrote:

Well I guess I am stuck here 4 ever-cravings of SP music..lol..
I get what your saying
I have been reading a little tiny amount on Buddhism, but not a whole lot. I have loved what I have read that’s for sure. It seems pure…[/quote:1q274b6e]

It’s about the only large belief system (technically, I don’t think it’s classed as a religion) that hasn’t got any corrupt or deluded followers, as far as I’m aware. It’s about the only serious belief system I can get on board with, mostly because of the intrinsically peaceful nature of it.

So apparently I don't post very often these days
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On bullettwoutbutterflywings wrote:

and also it is scientific in it’s own way.

every group does have it’s people who aren’t on board with everyone else, so that is to be expected.

but i really like the buddhist way of life, reaching twoard the ultimate goal through hard work and kindness. and you are right superlord, it isn’t a religon.

here is a good site for finding more out about it

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/basic-guide.htm

"shiny, let's be bad guys"--jayne cobb-the hero of canton
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On Anonymous wrote:

Thanks for the link bullet..I’ll have to check it out after I get back from the show

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On blueczarina wrote:

hmm, interesting topic.
I’m not really “religious” personally. In fact I’m quite turned off by the whole thing- organized faith, etc. I think it makes people feel superior to others and that most religions are quite corrupt and full of hypocrisy. I guess one of the main reasons I feel that way though is the way some of my relatives are. I have a couple aunts who use their religion to pass judgment on others and they feel that their beliefs are the only right ones and that everyone else is going to hell. :roll: They annoy most of my relatives- not the most popular folks in the family- but I just REALLY hate that crap. I also really hate being preached too. I can’t stand it when people try to cram religion down my throat. I guess I get a bit pissed off over that stuff- can’t help it. Plus, I too really hate how people think that their God loves everyone, except a big long list of people- homosexuals, Muslims, Jews, atheists, etc- it’s like you can’t have it both ways folks. And I don’t like the fact that “God” in most religions requires so much worship and adoration from the faithful and if “God” doesn’t get it- to hell with you. It just seems ridiculous.
I do actuallly find religion to be an interesting subject though. :wink: I just prefer to study it in more of a scholarly manner like I would study philosophy or whatever. In fact I do study Russian religion and philosophy in conjunction with Russian history. I find Orthodoxy to be quite interesting. So I don’t mind discussing religion or reading about it just as long as people aren’t being self- righteous or trying to covert folks. In fact I think it’s necessary to have an understanding of world religions when studying Literature, History, Art, etc. It just has played such a key role in so many areas over the centuries- it can’t be avoided. Like Cult Hero said, I do believe in separation of church and state though, unfortunately in reality that doesn’t happen, even in the US which is all big on that.
As for my own beliefs though I guess I would say I have some sense of the spiritual or at least of there being something beyond our normal understanding. I’m not “religious” and I don’t owe any allegiance to a god, but I guess I would say I have a sense of there being a certain energy to this world. Plus I think there must be something beyond the scientific to one’s consciousness- the mind, soul, spirit- whatever makes us more than just flesh and few neurons. It’s hard to explain. And like bullet I too think there is something to the concept of past lives although I wouldn’t admit it at home because I would look nuts. I think some people are just old souls. I myself feel that way. Plus, I have had this weird thing with Russia, esp. late 19th into The Revolution, ever since I was a little tot- no real reason for it either.
I don’t know. My beliefs make no sense, not even to me, but I guess there is my two cents. :?

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On Marcella wrote:

Most of the people I know think the same way you referred to, about thinking only their religion is right and that everyone else deserves hell, or discriminating homosexuals, as an example. I might consider myself part of an organized religion but I have my own theories regarding other religions in the world and their beliefs. I believe the God in Christianity is interpreted in different ways by different cultures, but is still the same superior being. Not really something people at Church would agree to, but I simply do not stand disrespect to other people’s beliefs. And don’t even get me started on the homosexuals thing; I could go on pages and pages on that.

Kind of a pointless post, but hey, it’s midnight and I’m bored.

Fevrale dostat chernil i plakatPisat O Fevrale navsnrydPoka grohochushaya slyakotVesnoyu charnoyu gorit
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On blueczarina wrote:

no thats fine. :wink: i think that isn’t a bad way of seeing things- everyone has the same God they just relate to them differently. i think its much better than seeing your God as better than everybody elses.

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On Superlordspamulon wrote:

Like Cult Hero said, I do believe in separation of church and state though, unfortunately in reality that doesn’t happen, even in the US which is all big on that. [/quote:2mqn9e26]

The US is big on Church with state, to be honest. Think about it – the Republican party, to the best of my knowledge, are very much big on Christianity. The whole ID vs. Evolution, and trying to get ID into the science classrooms (INTELLIGENT DESIGN IS NOT SCIENCE FOR FUCKS SAKE). Sex-ed, which seems to revolve around the very Christian ‘abstinence until marriage’, organized by Christian organizations. There is a MASSIVE stigma in the US on not being Christian, especially on being atheist. I mean, how can a secular country be able to have a load of inhabitants that will switch denominations to their partners so that they can marry properly?!? It just goes to show they don’t actually believe, but feel the need to show they believe in God. It’s ridiculous

Those are only a few examples, but the US is becoming ever more the Christian country. No other country in the world that has a law stating that it’s to remain secular has a friggin bible belt!!!

Guess who America voted Number one American who ever existed?

Jesus.

I shit you not.

So apparently I don't post very often these days
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On bullettwoutbutterflywings wrote:

well goes to show not everyone is very smart, i think most people are stupid. that is why it is so hard for me to have loving kindness in my heart.

i belive in a seperation of church and state, but it doesn’t really work that way, and i don’t know if it ever will.

it is kind of stupid, one example– when you are in court you have to swear on a bible that you will tell the truth.

that is some great sepration (i used my best sarcastic voice for that one)

"shiny, let's be bad guys"--jayne cobb-the hero of canton
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On Anonymous wrote:

Hmm.

I’d like there to be something after death, unfortunately there’ll probably never be any solid proof either way until we die. It’s a bit late, then, to ask questions… Possibly.

In a supposed Infinite Universe, the thought of this ‘lil Planet holding any real importance raises many possible questions.

Why do we have an Appendix, Tonsils, Wisdom Teeth, Adenoids? Are these merely evolutionary items that we used in years past?

If Earth’s a grain of sand on an infinite beach, then it’d be hard to imagine we’re \"alone\" in existence.

Scientists forever state they’re looking for Carbon-based lifeforms, when surely there could be more.

I don’t know, I’ve seen a gorgeous Rabbit die when I was young. Little did I know it was dying and they looked into my eyes at this moment. I’ll never forget it.

Many people would like there to be more than this, I hope there’s something to make some sense of why we’re here.

The best conversation I had was with a guy who said: \"People are too pre-occupied with things having a beginning and an end… Maybe we were always here?\"

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Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

but in buddhism you are reborn untill you are free from craving and ignorance, and then your mind attains Nirvana.[/quote:uznpc7iu]

Can’t I just skip all that and listen to In Utero?

in my time of dying
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Member
On Marcella wrote:

^ :lol: Just what I was thinking.

Fevrale dostat chernil i plakatPisat O Fevrale navsnrydPoka grohochushaya slyakotVesnoyu charnoyu gorit
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Member
On bullettwoutbutterflywings wrote:

no skipping ahead, and or cutting in line. gotta go through the steps, and you really feel better when you do.

"shiny, let's be bad guys"--jayne cobb-the hero of canton
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Member
On blueczarina wrote:
but in buddhism you are reborn untill you are free from craving and ignorance, and then your mind attains Nirvana.[/quote:1s87rls0]

Can’t I just skip all that and listen to In Utero?[/quote:1s87rls0]

hehe, i considered making a Nirvana crack yesterday. :lol: nice

and yeah, thats pretty much what i was thinking about Superlord- Republicans, Moral Majority, Conservative Baptist stuff. hell Congress prays before each session. i guess so much for the establishment clause. :?

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On Doubtful-Della wrote:

There are so many reasons for people to hate organized religions. They don’t have good track records because they are all full of sinful humans. You can’t have a perfect religion with imperfect humans. But I also don’t agree with people picking and choosing their beliefs to \"fit\" their lifestyle. If you believe in a God, don’t you think that HE has a set of standards? Would your parents/teacher/boss just let you pick and choose what you were going to listen to, to fit what you want?

So I think you should start off with whichever holy book/teaching/God you think is the right one, and follow that holy book/teaching/God. Not play mashup.

I follow the Bible. I’ve found a religion that studies it, meets together, studies it together, and is unified across the world. Each group doesn’t have different standards and different rules. So in my studies I’ve come to believe that the Earth is going to be a paradise in the future, just like God purposed in the beginning. And the humans will attain perfection again. And no matter what religion you are, right or wrong, God will judge you on your heart condition. There’s so much more to it, but it takes a lifetime of study… you can’t just wrap it all up in a nice little box with a bow :)

But don’t worry, even with my strong beliefs, I’m very normal

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Member
On Anonymous wrote:

I must say..I don’t believe in any one particular religion. I just listen to what I feel is right for me. I am sure there is a higher power out there unknown, but it’s there.

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Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

I follow the Bible. I’ve found a religion that studies it, meets together, studies it together, and is unified across the world. Each group doesn’t have different standards and different rules.[/quote:w0thz7wp]

…wow.

You know so little about Christianity. It is arguably the most divided and differing modern religion across denominations.

You have Catholics and Protestants – very different. Catholicism has things such as mass, the Eucharist and so forth. It has so much more rituals and frills than protestantism, which is fairly stark in nature. Catholics believe the Pope to hear God, or something. Just abut every other denomination doesn’t.

And then you get beliefs – you have your young earth creationists, and you have your people that believe in the big bang. You have the homophobes (*cough*WBC*ahem*) and the people who believe god loves everybody. You have your fundamentalists and your liberals. You have pro-lifers and pro-choicers.

And there is so much more. Christianity is unbelievably inconsistent across denominations. There are so many differing standards and rules.

So apparently I don't post very often these days
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On Anonymous wrote:

Superlord…..
you seem to know a lot about different religions. I just think organized religion is not necessary. God is wherever you want him to be in your daily life. There really is no need to attend an actual church unless it’s social and even that can be full of lies and deceit. I’m not saying all people who go to church are bad, but there are the people who go to church who sin the most and need to ask for forgiveness the most. Going to church sure ain’t going to get you to heaven any differently then someone who doesn’t go and believes in God. We all know right from wrong. Some of those preachers on Sunday live a different life m-f it is ridiculous and then they want our money to keep the house of God or whatever they call it functioning. I’ll keep my money to pay my bills to survive and have my own relationship with God without the cost of saying hey honey I’m broke I gave it to the church. I’d rather give it to my children so they can eat. Church is big business that I want no part of. I don’t believe in their ulterior methods, motives, whatever. I can believe in God because he hasn’t asked me for anything that is going to hurt me, only empower me with love to be who I am and move forward to self enlightenment.

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Member
On Doubtful-Della wrote:
I follow the Bible. I’ve found a religion that studies it, meets together, studies it together, and is unified across the world. Each group doesn’t have different standards and different rules.[/quote:3sy0x6uc]

…wow.

You know so little about Christianity. It is arguably the most divided and differing modern religion across denominations.
[/quote:3sy0x6uc]

I know that. I’ve studied about most mainstream religions, talked to people who believe it. It’s very divided… but so are other religions. Take witches for example: In witchcraft you have so many different types; black witch, white witch, druid, wiccan, different types of pagans etc

I was just saying that mine is in over 300 lands and is not divided. That was a key eliminate in me choosing it. No matter where I go I know that they will have the same beliefs as me

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Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Funny, we had a religion topic a long while back also, it’s always an interesting subject. Let me try to summize my thoughts about religions here again.

I’m not able to choose any religion as my main one, as all of them make some sense, but none is the ultimate truth. If any of them is, it would have appeared in my life as such, I think. But in my humble thoughts there is no ultimate truth. What we think is the truth is basically the earth going from being flat to being round. It changes all the time, and it takes an unwanted religious struggle or even blood bath to change. Religion, in itself, is based around fear and control, and that is not really my style of living and thinking. Also, religion didn’t give us the breakthroughs in our thinking, it were the artists instead. Painters, writers, musicians, philosophers, those were and are the people that give us the good feelings and the guidelines for the future, I think. There is no upper being either, as he/she/it cannot create a stone that he/she/it cannot lift.

Just some thoughts…

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Member
On bullettwoutbutterflywings wrote:

God will judge you on your heart condition. [/quote:28phovdf]

i had a heart condition when i was preggers, does this mean i am going to hell?

just wanted to know so i can like prepare or something.

"shiny, let's be bad guys"--jayne cobb-the hero of canton
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On blueczarina wrote:

I know that. I’ve studied about most mainstream religions, talked to people who believe it. It’s very divided…
I was just saying that mine is in over 300 lands and is not divided. That was a key eliminate in me choosing it. No matter where I go I know that they will have the same beliefs as me[/quote:avax0lg4]

well, is it divided or not? :roll:

just because there are Christian religions in several countries doesn’t mean that they are all unified in their beliefs. in fact they are not. there are several types of Christianity that have very different worldviews, interpretations of the bible, moral concerns, etc. they are certainly not unified.

plus, may i remind you of a few events in the history of Christianity- the REFORMATION, the schism between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic church, the conflict between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland, the conflict between the High Church and Low Churches in England, the religious Raskol in Russian History, the conflict between the Quakers and the Puritans in early American History in the New England Colonies, and so on and so forth.

and i might add most of these at there roots were conflicts over religious doctrine. so tell me is Christianity still unified? even after you revisit the fact that people have died and wars have been fought over conflicts with in Christianity?

this is not a unified religion no matter how many places it crops up.

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On Doubtful-Della wrote:

well, is it divided or not? :roll:[/quote:25epgttj]

I think you misunderstood me. My religion is not Christianity as a whole. Christianity as a whole is divided in it’s beliefs.

What I was trying to say is that my denomination is not divided amongst itself. And that is why I chose it out of the other Christian denominations.

You can disagree with Christianity as a whole, but what I believe works for me. Monotheism plus a prophetic book that is scientifically accurate (i.e. the Bible says the earth is a sphere… so if people would have actually read it and listened to it, there wouldn’t have been the whole "earth is flat" thing) Plus, the fact that it was penned by so many men over such a long time and is harmonious in thought has something to say for itself. Dr.’s and Phychologists change their recommendations from year to year, but the principles in this book have worked for centuries.

And just because there has been many bad things done in the name of God and because of "the Bible" it doesn’t make it right. It doesn’t mean that they were following the Bible. It means that they were using it as a front to fulfill their own objective.

But thinking that every form of that religion is wrong just because of what some idiots did in the past is like saying that you want nothing to do with your country because it went to war or had slavery etc etc. Stupid decisions by stupid people doesn’t make the whole thing pointless

I’m not trying to fight you, just make sure that you understood what I meant.

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On Doubtful-Della wrote:
God will judge you on your heart condition. [/quote:o98ak1d5]

i had a heart condition when i was preggers, does this mean i am going to hell?

just wanted to know so i can like prepare or something.[/quote:o98ak1d5]

HAHAHA nah… I just mean that there are people out there doing good things and being "good people" but sometimes their motivation and reasoning are in the wrong place. I feel that God will take everything into account when he judges people: Their works, their faith, their mental condition, their spiritual heart etc

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On Anonymous wrote:

I think Arthur summed religion up pretty well :D
my feelings and thoughts are like his!

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On bullettwoutbutterflywings wrote:
God will judge you on your heart condition. [/quote:3odw3979]

i had a heart condition when i was preggers, does this mean i am going to hell?

just wanted to know so i can like prepare or something.[/quote:3odw3979]

HAHAHA nah… I just mean that there are people out there doing good things and being "good people" but sometimes their motivation and reasoning are in the wrong place. I feel that God will take everything into account when he judges people: Their works, their faith, their mental condition, their spiritual heart etc[/quote:3odw3979]

i know i was being sarcastic.

"shiny, let's be bad guys"--jayne cobb-the hero of canton
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On Doubtful-Della wrote:

i know i was being sarcastic.[/quote:14qlyxyj]

I know! :lol:

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