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Forum: General

Topic: Billy Posts a Blog

This topic contains 41 replies, has 4,914 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of tree_spirit Tree_Spirit 9 years, 10 months ago.

On Tree_Spirit wrote:

at smashingpumpkins.com

Profile photo of pierowmaniac
Member
On pierowmaniac wrote:

A very poetic Blog from mr corgan, though I dont think anyone could have expected any different.
It seems the main point that came across is that hes going to carry on creating the music he wants to and not pander to pressure to return to the style of the earlier days.
Still no real confirmation that Ginger, Jeff or Lisa are permanant members, although you could read into their blog entries that this is the case.

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Here’s the blog (for those of you like me who are too lazy to click over)

Taken from http://www.smashingpumpkins.com
———————————————————————————————
Words Iz Cheap – October 11th, 2007

There was a moment in time once where I would welcome any opportunity to speak my piece, my heart, if only to rip it from my breast and toss it to your table bloodied and torn, declaring wildly ‘look, how gloriously it beats to it’s own drum! Even I can’t control it’s passions and delusions and murmurs’…but these days words iz cheap, and any ‘ol chump can throw ’em round like darts…(a blab has become a blob has become a blog)…and just like the sci-fi movie from the 50’s \"The Blob\", no one can figure out how to kill it or simply outrun it…we all just stand here transfixed, gaping at the lack of consciousness of something so unwilling to negotiate, it’s only obvious intention seems to be a desire to absorb all in it’s path…so with that, with what’s left in my mind, I sacrifice these words to the gaping maw of The Void…

I love my country…I love it so much, I’ll say it twice…I LOVE this country!!…today i am in Columbus, Ohio, and everything about Columbus has everything to do with what I love about America: the collisions of architectures idealistic and functionally gaudy…the lone characters who climb out of treetops and caves and still retain their sense of home…everywhere that I look here I am reminded of other battles and beliefs that now seem forgotten, yet their symbols still blow their horns in silent reverie because that’s all they know how to do…like children waiting for a dad to come home who won’t ever come home because he has run off to Trinidad with his secretary…(Uncle Sam has moved down to his timeshare!) But I want him to know I still love him so, and his once glorious charge…that commission is what my uncles died for, and what haunted my grandfather so that he drank himself to death, that feeling of hope and coldness that is America…Walt Disney knew enough to dress it up fancy in sentimentalism to try to keep it warm, but even he tried to outrun it and tackle the coming urban blight with what his EPCOT Center was supposed to be…high technology as a new kind of centering religion…Disney devotee’s are still comfortable with his pirate ships, but many forget he also realized that we also need a safe harbor to enjoy our cozy memories from…and unfortunately he too died before he could complete that vision of a ‘City of Tomorrow’…so no safe harbors here…

So from this snow globe that I shake up for you I’ll try to beam out what goes on back in here…having started this particular journey of The Good Ship Pumpkin way back in November of 2005, I’ve now had maybe 2 months off total since then…I am not complaining because I love the work, but I am pretty exhausted day after day…however it is the Spirit of the good fans who travel so far to give us that love really lifts me back up…with much help from God…so my Spirit is strong, and I am happy to report that the band is playing beautifully presently, and as a unit is fully committed to not wasting your time with vague intentions…I am also happy to report that we have been able to, over the course of the last 5-6 months, address all the eras of the group quite faithfully, so that there now feels like there is a harmonious balance between Zeitgeist and the previous musical periods…nothing feels like it is being sacrificed against a new whole…of course, some songs don’t apply to this, but this has more to do with their inconsistency against the energies of the times we are in than in the foundational energies of Zeitgeist…it makes me very happy we have been able to accomplish this in so short of a time…

in my time of dying
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Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

(CONTINUED)

Taken from http://www.smashingpumpkins.com
———————————————————————————————
Words Iz Cheap – October 11th, 2007

Sometimes after shows I like to stop and talk to fans, to hear what they are feeling and what they want, and maybe even see what they need…in Detroit a few nights ago, a fan kept yelling at me ‘Billy, more Siamese Dream, more Siamese Dream!’…of course I asked him my favourite question, ‘why’ and he said, ‘because it’s the best!’…what I think he really meant is ‘it’s my favourite album and I came here hoping to hear you play more of those songs’…to his credit, he was young and probably didn’t get the chance to see ‘ol SP on that tour back in 93-94…so I respect that…(in fact, I respect all fans opinions, even when I may disagree strongly with them, which I often do)…I respect that he may have come in the hope to hear us play his favourite songs, and triumphantly be the band he wants us to be…but as I said the other night to the same audience in Detroit that this young man was in, ‘this is not a reunion tour’…

The question I ask is when does the past begin to dictate our future?…if one was to listen to Siamese Dream from a particular perspective, you might hear me at age 25 or so struggling with how to escape my past! How ironic that that same struggle should now become part of my current struggle for autonomy…the current SP is designed to live on happily, strongly, proudly, and boldly…there is no other way that I can see to water the flowers properly…we choose life, and the love of the moment for the song we choose to sing…

I believe God talks to me at each and every moment of my life, the only problem being that I don’t listen…God does not want any of us to be unhappy, or to mourn for that which has no meaning…thanks to digital media, many of us can and will be remembered in perpetuity by an unseen future, but they probably won’t bother to watch…my guess is our images and sounds will seem as archaic to them as images and sounds from the beginnings of the 20th century sound to us now…so fighting for the preservation of values that don’t matter now and will matter even less down the road seems a sad waste of energy…I am happy to be a warrior of light and universal logic if I am fighting for the good in us…sentimentalism in and of itself is a form of death…sentimentalism in the context of preserving that which meant something to our ancestors and therefore is encoded secretly in our dna is something I am raptuous about…if God is love is truth, than you are that to me…SP stands at the center of my musical truth, and mirrors how god stands for me in the center of all truth…I would hope we can faithfully copy that paradigm, and always stay focused on what really matters…we may not always be what you want, but we do have what you need!

:)
B C

in my time of dying
Profile photo of toad32r
Participant
On toad32r wrote:

Rock on Billy, Rock on!!

Ribbit...Toad-----------------Toads are really underated!!
Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

that was a pretty awesome blog :)
i liked it a lot…

anyone else notice that the Billy and Jimmy were the last to do blogs, and that jeff, ginger and lisa had done blogs before them?

maybe they were introducing and setting up those three to make them look like established members to all the pumpkin heads out there :lol:

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i didn’t really like that blog. it’s quite whacko. and not ha-ha whacko, but ouch-whacko.

Profile photo of tree_spirit
Member
On Tree_Spirit wrote:

His Blog post seem to come from a more spiritual side of Billy.I seen not a whack-o post here.I seen a lot of remembrance and thinking to pass things and to future here.A very well thought out post.Billy so scriptive in writing in code like style at times.Trying to figure him out at times is like trying to figure out a age old secret in time.lol..Which we never have or will solve.

*Quote by billy*…
I believe God talks to me at each and every moment of my life, the only problem being that I don’t listen…God does not want any of us to be unhappy, or to mourn for that which has no meaning…thanks to digital media, many of us can and will be remembered in perpetuity by an unseen future, but they probably won’t bother to watch…my guess is our images and sounds will seem as archaic to them as images and sounds from the beginnings of the 20th century sound to us now…so fighting for the preservation of values that don’t matter now and will matter even less down the road seems a sad waste of energy…I am happy to be a warrior of light and universal logic if I am fighting for the good in us…sentimentalism in and of itself is a form of death…sentimentalism in the context of preserving that which meant something to our ancestors and therefore is encoded secretly in our dna is something I am raptuous about…if God is love is truth, than you are that to me…SP stands at the center of my musical truth, and mirrors how god stands for me in the center of all truth…I would hope we can faithfully copy that paradigm, and always stay focused on what really matters…we may not always be what you want, but we do have what you need!

Don’t everyone get in up in arms about this god thing.. a large part of the pumpkins earlier music was about questioning if god even exists or what that even means. god has always been present in the music. Even I seen this being a very new fan here of the pumpkins.

Sentimentalism-An optimistic overemphasis of the goodness of humanity (sensibility), representing in part a reaction against Calvinism, which regarded human nature as depraved. The novel of sensibility was developed from this 18th century notion, manifested in the Sentimental novel.

In reference to the historical movement of Sentimentalism within the United States of America during the 18th century, Sentimentalism was a European-spawned idea that emphasized feelings and emotions, a physical appreciation of God, nature, and other people, rather than logic and reason. The impact on the American people was that love became as important in marriage as financial considerations.

Moral sense theory (also known as sentimentalism)

The moral sense is often described as providing information in a way analogous to other sensory modalities, such as sight in the perception of colors. It is contrasted with the way in which one acquires a priori, non-empirical knowledge, such as mathematical knowledge for example.

One way to understand the moral sense is to draw an analogy between it and other kinds of senses. Beauty is something we see in some faces, artworks and landscapes. We can also hear it in some pieces of music. We clearly do not need an independent aesthetic sense faculty to perceive beauty in the world. Our ordinary five senses are quite enough to observe it, though merely observing something beautiful is not by itself enough to appreciate its beauty. Suppose we give a name to this ability to appreciate the beauty in things we see: let’s call it the aesthetic sense. This aesthetic sense does not come automatically to all people with perfect vision and hearing, so it is fair to describe it as something extra, something not wholly reducible to vision and hearing. As the aesthetic sense informs us about what is beautiful, we can analogically understand the moral sense as informing us of what is good. People with a functioning moral sense get a clear impression of wrongness when they see puppies being kicked, for example.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9411/b492200713e331baq9.png
Profile photo of tree_spirit
Member
On Tree_Spirit wrote:

However, though the wrongness is obvious, we may find it very difficult to list the features of the scene which account for the wrongness. We discover wrongness through observing natural properties with our five senses. Can we list the necessary and sufficient conditions such that any action which satisfies these conditions is wrong? The Ethical Naturalist thinks that in principle, we can. For naturalists, rightness and wrongness are nothing more than certain combinations of natural, non-evaluative properties. Since we can in principle build mechanical detectors for all these natural properties, the Ethical Naturalist thinks wrongness is something that a machine could eventually detect. The ethical intuitionist typically disagrees (although, it is not essential to the view): they see a wide concept

Sorry this got long.But Billy has made his point in his blog post.Him himself quoted sentimentalism in the context of preserving that which meant something to our ancestors and therefore is encoded secretly in our dna is something I am raptuous about…

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Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

A very poetic Blog from mr corgan, though I dont think anyone could have expected any different.
It seems the main point that came across is that hes going to carry on creating the music he wants to and not pander to pressure to return to the style of the earlier days.
Still no real confirmation that Ginger, Jeff or Lisa are permanant members, although you could read into their blog entries that this is the case.[/quote:nlxr3bsb]

agree man. so far the only reply that makes sense here. i dont understand billy loving america so much as i wouldnt be to proud to be american these days.

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
Profile photo of lilkitn
Member
On lilkitn wrote:

To tell you the honest truth, I never really was that fond of Americans (sorry for those yanks out there). But I learned that it’s not the people I dislike, but it’s the politics I really don’t like. And from what I’ve heard a lot of Americans disagree with what’s going on with the wars and such as well. So now, I’ve learned to love the people… ah… isn’t that cute?

Kit’n

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Well I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of tree_spirit
Member
On Tree_Spirit wrote:

Well I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free.[/quote:15q4960a]

Amen to that!Very proud to be Asian & American.Politics should never define who a single person is.No one is the same.We each and all are different.We shouldn’t be define into a little box .Because someone doesn’t like what ONE person reflects,in another countries politics.I wish to not be judged by another man mistakes.But by my own merit.Then if i am judged, it is my maker who i worry about and answer to for mistakes,not another man in my opinion.American or whatever you are or where every your from , i care less.Respect me,i respect you.You got to learn to love people for who they are,not where they come from.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9411/b492200713e331baq9.png
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

Well I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free.[/quote:3bt0awo0]
You make it sound like America is the only place where people are free.

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:
Well I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free.[/quote:1xcsgp9a]
You make it sound like America is the only place where people are free.[/quote:1xcsgp9a]

It’s a song. A very cheesy song.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:
Well I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free.[/quote:ts6kzthu]

Amen to that!Very proud to be Asian & American.Politics should never define who a single person is.No one is the same.We each and all are different.We shouldn’t be define into a little box .Because someone doesn’t like what ONE person reflects,in another countries politics.I wish to not be judged by another man mistakes.But by my own merit.Then if i am judged, it is my maker who i worry about and answer to for mistakes,not another man in my opinion.American or whatever you are or where every your from , i care less.Respect me,i respect you.You got to learn to love people for who they are,not where they come from.[/quote:ts6kzthu]

Well put. Over here in the States, it’s very two-sided. It’s like you’re either with us or against us. Very little middle ground. I’m not sure the two-party system is really working. I like the idea of a third candidate, but they usually drop out to give more votes to one of the two main parties that they "kind of" support, so that the "bad party" doesn’t win. It fucking sucks.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:
Well I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free.[/quote:240amkng]
You make it sound like America is the only place where people are free.[/quote:240amkng]

exactly. besides that there’s this unchristian deathpenalty in some states and the us supporting wars everywhere only because of oil while same amount of money could feed whole africa for years and years on. and you guys think its normal to have guns everywhere around also. i mean holland sux but us sux even more. i dont understand billy being proud im not saying all us people are same

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

It’s a song. A very cheesy song.[/quote:3mapmp3z]
Ah, ok. I don’t know the song, so that went right over my head. :? :)

Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

i dont understand billy being proud im not saying all us people are same[/quote:2ikch3v5] i think it may have more to do with ancestry rather than the current state of affairs.
i mean, i’m proud to be english… even though england is a complete shit-hole now. but i’m proud because of englands rich history, the ancestry etc. i’m proud to belong to that.

but i do agree, i think it’s kinda messed up in the US. you still have the death penalty there, and people are still trying to keep a ‘law’ that allows them to use firearms, despite this ‘law’ being set up in colonial times when there wasn’t really a police force to take care of issues – it was down to the individual, and people still seem to think that this applies today…
and also, the american government still seems to be non-secular – in that religion still holds a significant influence on the running of the country. which is just messed up. hell, there is somewhere where they won’t let you run for governor if you don’t have any religious belief! how screwed up is that!?! frankly, an non-theistical government is much more likely to do a good/better job of running a country than some religious types (Bush’s justification of the war on iraq? god told me to do it. seriously)

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of tree_spirit
Member
On Tree_Spirit wrote:

i think it may have more to do with ancestry rather than the current state of affairs.[/quote:1q58rlhd]

This is true no matter where your from.Even us American’s it is about ancestry.

But in all honesty to all that don’t live in the states,that do voice their opinions on how they see America.From one American i can truly tell you.What you see in our,Politics isn’t reflecting what the average person wants or believes in..Politicians in my opinion have lost sight of what the American people really want or even think.I know not one person that is running in our Presidential Race,i do agree with and does not reflect my views at all.In politics they more reflect what they want and it’s their opinion.Even tho we get to vote for who is President,when come down to it,they do what they want.This is in any political system from what I’ve seen .Why i NEVER judge a person from where their from.

I’m against death penalty
I’m against fire arms.
I’m not against religion ,but again as i said above don’t define a person into a little box,even a Christian into a little box.I don’t believe in forcing religion onto someone because it doesn’t work.But I should be allowed to say word GOd without a war or a battle.I’m not the type to argue no since in it.If a man truly doesnt want to hear about religion & GOD.What he believes in you aren’t going to change what he or she believes.That just leads to battling and arguing with words crossed to each other that you shouldn’t say to a person.If you are truly a Christian person you wouldn’t stand and fight with a person about God, in all honesty.

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Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:
i dont understand billy being proud im not saying all us people are same[/quote:2qyp9skg] i think it may have more to do with ancestry rather than the current state of affairs.
i mean, i’m proud to be english… even though england is a complete shit-hole now. but i’m proud because of englands rich history, the ancestry etc. i’m proud to belong to that.

but i do agree, i think it’s kinda messed up in the US. you still have the death penalty there, and people are still trying to keep a ‘law’ that allows them to use firearms, despite this ‘law’ being set up in colonial times when there wasn’t really a police force to take care of issues – it was down to the individual, and people still seem to think that this applies today…
and also, the american government still seems to be non-secular – in that religion still holds a significant influence on the running of the country. which is just messed up. hell, there is somewhere where they won’t let you run for governor if you don’t have any religious belief! how screwed up is that!?! frankly, an non-theistical government is much more likely to do a good/better job of running a country than some religious types (Bush’s justification of the war on iraq? god told me to do it. seriously)[/quote:2qyp9skg]

I’m not quite sure what’s wrong with capital punishment, I’ve never had to sit down and form an opinion about it, so I’m still ambivalent in most respects.

However, I’m no gun-toting, right-wing, NRA supporter, BUT I strongly agree with the right to bear arms. It’s our right as people of this country to be able to arms ourselves. Yes, this originated in colonial times, as a guard against the redcoats breaking into your house and stealing your shit. You don’t think it applies today? That is just insane. The Bush administration has slowly eroded many of our rights over the last 8 years (illegally tapping phone lines, detaining suspected terrorists abroad WITHOUT a formal charge, supporting torture tactics, etc.). It’s this kind of bullshit that makes people within a country realize change is necessary. I’m not saying we all need to go outside and start shooting politicians, BUT it’s nice to know that we can defend ourselves from the enemy, even if that enemy is our own government. Which I believe is currently the case.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

If you are truly a Christian person you wouldn’t stand and fight with a person about God, in all honesty.[/quote:2juxg8bl]

Actually, that’s what the Crusades were. Some people still believe that not fighting and engaging and spreading the word of Christ is failing as a Christian. They feel it is part of being Christian, to spread the gospel and that all non-Christians will go to hell. So, in a way, it’s out of a good place, they want everyone to go to heaven. But, if you don’t believe in it, you don’t believe in it. More people die over religion I think than anything else. What a holy cause.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

One more thing: the president does not run the country. Lobbyists who support big business (like the pharmecutical industry, oil companies, tobacco firms, military contractors) run the United States. These groups provide the funding to elect the official that will vote in favor of what they need to accomplish in order to make the most profit.

Why do you think we starting drilling in Alaska’s reserve under Bush?

So no matter who you vote for, it’s a puppet show, a marionette if you will. Tree Spirit is right, the American public is not represented at all by their current government. They are simply exploited. And too ignorant, poor, and lazy to do anything about it.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Huh!
Yeah, were comin back then with another bombtrack
Think ya know what its all about
Huh!
Hey yo, so check this out
Yeah!
Know your enemy!

Come on!

Born with insight and a raised fist
A witness to the slit wrist, thats with
As we move into 92
Still in a room without a view
Ya got to know
Ya got to know
That when I say go, go, go
Amp up and amplify
Defy
Im a brother with a furious mind
Action must be taken
We dont need the key
Well break in

Something must be done
About vengeance, a badge and a gun
cause Ill rip the mike, rip the stage, rip the system
I was born to rage against em

Fist in ya face, in the place
And Ill drop the style clearly
Know your enemy…know your enemy!

Yeah!

Hey yo, and dick with this…uggh!
Word is born
Fight the war, fuck the norm
Now I got no patience
So sick of complacence
With the d the e the f the I the a the n the c the e
Mind of a revolutionary
So clear the lane
The finger to the land of the chains
What? the land of the free?
Whoever told you that is your enemy?

Now something must be done
About vengeance, a badge and a gun
cause Ill rip the mike, rip the stage, rip the system
I was born to rage against em

Now action must be taken
We dont need the key
Well break in

Ive got no patience now
So sick of complacence now
Ive got no patience now
So sick of complacence now
Sick of sick of sick of sick of you
Time has come to pay…
Know your enemy!

Come on!
Yes I know my enemies
Theyre the teachers who taught me to fight me
Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission
Ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, the elite
All of which are american dreams (8 times)

in my time of dying
Profile photo of tree_spirit
Member
On Tree_Spirit wrote:
If you are truly a Christian person you wouldn’t stand and fight with a person about God, in all honesty.[/quote:28aiareo]

Actually, that’s what the Crusades were. Some people still believe that not fighting and engaging and spreading the word of Christ is failing as a Christian. They feel it is part of being Christian, to spread the gospel and that all non-Christians will go to hell. So, in a way, it’s out of a good place, they want everyone to go to heaven. But, if you don’t believe in it, you don’t believe in it. More people die over religion I think than anything else. What a holy cause.[/quote:28aiareo]

You take what i mean out context.Maybe i’m not reflecting it in the right way either.You catch more flies with honey,then you do with vinegar.Forcing,arguing,shoving God down someones throat doesn’t bring God to the non believer.I know this to well and know this type of Christian. It doesn’t work believe me.
If you approach a person as a friend not enemy.Not like it a local wrestling match or a battle.A person is not placed lower then you but as your equal.You’ll fine you’ll reach more people and hearts this way.You should be more humble in nature.

A new forum of Christians are rising as a new coming .Not to sound weird or crazy in anyway.But we are.We all change, so do US Christians in ways.I have very different outlook on things,just me I guess.Your not going save no one if you alienate them.

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Member
On luxe wrote:

i didn’t really like that blog. it’s quite whacko. and not ha-ha whacko, but ouch-whacko.[/quote:19ls1q5j]

For once I agree with Cool As Ice Cream, I thought the blog was very strange. It almost validated the rumor that he is married to Veronica Grey, as it was written in such style.

More on that in another thread. . .

It’s too bad he doesn’t want to play old songs anymore, although I do understand that to him they must seem very overplayed. I would love to hear "Suffer" or "Obscured" or "Soma" any time.

~luxe

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On luxe wrote:

To tell you the honest truth, I never really was that fond of Americans (sorry for those yanks out there). But I learned that it’s not the people I dislike, but it’s the politics I really don’t like. And from what I’ve heard a lot of Americans disagree with what’s going on with the wars and such as well. So now, I’ve learned to love the people… ah… isn’t that cute?

Kit’n[/quote:i62w2jxg]

Dear lilkitn + the others who had comments about Americans,

If you were an American, as I proudly am, you would not throw the word "yanks" around so easily. It’s very offensive to most Americans who are not in the same belief as many of our Southern folk. To call any American a "yank" is almost as bad as using a racial slur.

I find the insults about Americans to be fairly critical, and not necessary. We’re not here to talk about politics or nationality. If you actually spoke to the every day US citizen you’d find they have a lot of disagreement with the political system here.

This forum is about *the Smashing Pumpkins* not a slam on nationality.

If the forum truly hates Americans then you will lose a lot of potential information, etc. as being Americans, we all had the fortunate experience of knowing about the Pumpkins before they even parted from US soil.

I think you owe every US citizen on this forum an apology. It’s appalling this day and age to have such baises when you don’t even probably know enough of us personally to count on one hand.

If this is the general consensus on this forum, please let me know right away and I will happily remove myself, along w/ memorabilia that I contributed from this forum.

So please, dear folks let us bad old Americans know if we’re good enough for this forum.

~luxe

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Member
On Tree_Spirit wrote:
To tell you the honest truth, I never really was that fond of Americans (sorry for those yanks out there). But I learned that it’s not the people I dislike, but it’s the politics I really don’t like. And from what I’ve heard a lot of Americans disagree with what’s going on with the wars and such as well. So now, I’ve learned to love the people… ah… isn’t that cute?

Kit’n[/quote:27yqjgbk]
This was not meant as any insult or a racial slur. If you took the time to read the post.Or did they mean any insult by it.It’s their cultural ways.I am American myself and took no insult to it.

This is a forum board with many people and opinions as i see it.THEY ALL have the right to voice theirs as they see it here.I seen no hate coming from no one here.We were having a chat that start from this comment which we all took it in the wrong way, because it was a song.

Well I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free.[/quote:27yqjgbk]
You make it sound like America is the only place where people are free.[/quote:27yqjgbk]

It’s a song. A very cheesy song.[/quote:27yqjgbk][/quote:27yqjgbk]

I seen no one being insulting or being immature but all of us having a mature chat about our post.Only person that took things in the wrong way was you.Not to be rude luxe,but did you actually read the whole chat.

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On luxe wrote:
Well I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free.[/quote:2fksbpem]
You make it sound like America is the only place where people are free.[/quote:2fksbpem]

exactly. besides that there’s this unchristian deathpenalty in some states and the us supporting wars everywhere only because of oil while same amount of money could feed whole africa for years and years on. and you guys think its normal to have guns everywhere around also. i mean holland sux but us sux even more. i dont understand billy being proud im not saying all us people are same[/quote:2fksbpem]

I am very proud to be American. That doesn’t mean I am proud of what is going on in Iraq. You can’t put it all in a neat little box and think that just because our country is in a bad place at this time that we are not proud of it for other reasons. There are so many reasons, present and past, that make me proud as hell to be from the USA. I back Billy 100%. The media is great at only showing the bad and the ugly. Not usually does it show the good things that happen here.

As for Christianity – in my mind that should not even be paired with being an American. Again, I realize that we have a President that has crossed the line of "separation of church and state" over and over again but that does not mean the people of the US are okay with that. Not all of us are Christian in the US. Surprise but we aren’t. I’m not Christian but I am American and I respect all religions as it is a personal choice, not one of nationality.

Do you actually believe that we like what is going on here? Do you think we like seeing the flags at half mast every week because another soldier has died for a cause that none of us support? Do you think we like waiting to get that one email from our loved one who is in Iraq against his/her will because they joined the Armed Forces in another time when it wasn’t for a war they didn’t believe in? Do you know how we live with the sinking feeling when we hear of another car bomb that has gone off in Iraq and has "US casualties".

My grandfather served in WW2 and lived in torment until his death about the things he saw. My father was in the Navy for 35 years and my father-in-law a Green Beret in Vietnam. These men do not sleep at night because of the haunting memories that they endured for their country. They gave their lives thinking they were making this world a better place and they are true heroes to me.

Forget the politics — no one disagrees that Bush is a whacko who should not be our president. But the US soldiers in Iraq are not there necessarily because they believe in it but because they took an oath and are staying true to that.

Don’t judge every American on the premise of our political system because that is a huge mistake. We all hate what is going on and want it to end. We have been to funerals of people who have died over there and we know it is all for nothing. Maybe be more sympathetic to the average American than being judgmental.

Despite the many bad things that are going on here – I can honestly say I know of many good things our Government is doing. I worked for the Department of Energy for 14 years and we have stopped building weapons and have started working on things like the Human Genome Project or finding a cure for AIDS and cancer. We have the top notch scientists from all over the world — probably from each of your countries and we are respectful to their beliefs and ideals, as much as we are of our own. My point — you can say a lot about the bad things in the US but unless you live here, you don’t see the good that is being done.

I am proud as hell to be an American and I hate Bush. Maybe that seems contradictory to most of you but if you lived here, you’d get it. We have no control over the ridiculous political system so we try and make peace and work on things that better this earth in our small little places in the country. To judge us by our politicians is a sad mistake.

~luxe

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On luxe wrote:
To tell you the honest truth, I never really was that fond of Americans (sorry for those yanks out there). But I learned that it’s not the people I dislike, but it’s the politics I really don’t like. And from what I’ve heard a lot of Americans disagree with what’s going on with the wars and such as well. So now, I’ve learned to love the people… ah… isn’t that cute?

Kit’n[/quote:3taekehb]
This was not meant as any insult or a racial slur. If you took the time to read the post.Or did they mean any insult by it.It’s their cultural ways.I am American myself and took no insult to it.

This is a forum board with many people and opinion as i see it.THEY ALL have the right to voice theirs as they see it here.I seen no hate coming from no one here.We were having a chat that start from this comment which we all took it in the wrong way, because it was a song.

Well I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free.[/quote:3taekehb]
You make it sound like America is the only place where people are free.[/quote:3taekehb]

It’s a song. A very cheesy song.[/quote:3taekehb]

I seen no one being insulting or being immature but all of us having a mature chat about our post.Only person that took things in the wrong way was you.Not to be rude,but did you actually read the whole chat.[/quote:3taekehb][/quote:3taekehb]

Yes, I did read the whole chat and if you are not offended by being called a "yank" than maybe you don’t know what it really means. It’s horrible and filled with the notion that we are racists. I’m sorry but that is offensive, even if it wasn’t meant to be.

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On Tree_Spirit wrote:

I don’t argue with people.I was born and raised in America.I’m very educated.Your blowing things out of the water.And reading stuff into something that is not there.Have a nice day.

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On lilkitn wrote:

Well, I’m Canadian… and you can call me a Canuck anytime, it wont hurt my feelings.

I decided to do a bit of research, as I was uncertain exactly what a \"Yankee\" is. Webster’s Dictionary defines it as: inhabitant of U.S.A., esp. of New England, or of the Northern Stages. -a. belonging to the U.S.A. From what I read the orgin of the word is from when British General James Wolfe referred to the New England soldiers under his command as Yankees: \"I can afford you two companies of Yankees.\" The \"Yankee and Pennamite\" war was a series of clashes over land titles in Pennsylvania, 1769, in which \"Yankee\" meant the Connecticut claimants.

Now let’s have some more fun, and look up Canuck: n. (sl) (French) Canadian. Wikipedia says: Canadians use \"Canuck\" as an affectionate description of nationality and the word carries no particular patriotic overtones. A few Americans misinterpret \"Canuck\" as an offensive noun but would be hard pressed to find a Canadian, French or English, insulted by the word.

So why can’t we all just get along???

I’ll be the bigger person here if I must, and say no harm was intended… and if I insulted anyone, I am deeply sorry.

Kit’n

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On luxe wrote:

Well, I’m Canadian… and you can call me a Canuck anytime, it wont hurt my feelings.

I decided to do a bit of research, as I was uncertain exactly what a "Yankee" is. Webster’s Dictionary defines it as: inhabitant of U.S.A., esp. of New England, or of the Northern Stages. -a. belonging to the U.S.A. From what I read the orgin of the word is from when British General James Wolfe referred to the New England soldiers under his command as Yankees: "I can afford you two companies of Yankees." The "Yankee and Pennamite" war was a series of clashes over land titles in Pennsylvania, 1769, in which "Yankee" meant the Connecticut claimants.

Now let’s have some more fun, and look up Canuck: n. (sl) (French) Canadian. Wikipedia says: Canadians use "Canuck" as an affectionate description of nationality and the word carries no particular patriotic overtones. A few Americans misinterpret "Canuck" as an offensive noun but would be hard pressed to find a Canadian, French or English, insulted by the word.

So why can’t we all just get along???

I’ll be the bigger person here if I must, and say no harm was intended… and if I insulted anyone, I am deeply sorry.

Kit’n[/quote:2pecj6q0]

Thank you, Kit’n for taking the time to look into the words. The thing about being called a "Yank" is that Yanks were those who treated every race equally (which is a good thing) but those who called people "Yanks" meant it as an insult, as a synonym to someone who is sympathetic to a word I absolutely will not say. So it’s derogatory because those who have beliefs with the Confederate Nation say that as a slam to those (like myself) who believe all races are equal.

I was shocked to realize that there was still such biases in this day and age. I was not prepared for it when I married someone who has roots from the deep south, but please note he is not a racist at all. When I brought a friend to visit at our beach house down south who is not Caucasian, his relatives (not him, personally) were so racist to her and called me a Yank. It was horrific to see that kind of racism with people who are young and not of an era that supported racism. I told them later that I am of Spanish descent and that was also not okay.

Thus, I am very uptight when I hear the word "yank" as it is meant to be a derogatory slur.

You are the bigger person and the word just has a horrible attachment for me and my apologies for being hypersensitive about that word.

I realize that you didn’t mean it as a bad thing. It’s just very hard for me to understand how people can be so racist in these current times (not you, but people that I have experienced). Truly, some people still fly the confederate flag and believe that they are somehow superior and it boggles my mind and makes me very sad. America is supposed to be a melting pot of different nationalities and it is hard for me to see the old ways still rearing their ugly heads – but that isn’t your fault. Again, you have my apology and hope you can understand why it upset me.

My apology to you and thank you for looking into the words.

~luxe

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On luxe wrote:

I don’t argue with people.I was born and raised in America.I’m very educated.Your blowing things out of the water.And reading stuff into something that is not there.Have a nice day.[/quote:1slrgap3]

Clearly you do disagree with people and that is fine w/ me. I’m sorry you feel you had to validate your personality and education. I don’t believe anything I said indicated you had to be super educated to grasp a concept of a benign word being used as a racial slur. Clearly I explained why that word is a problem for me.

You have an opinion and I have an opinion–both of which should be respected . Just because I don’t have the same view as you (or anyone else) that doesn’t make my point invalid. A true discussion is open to all angles, not just the peaceful ones.

Just as you think I am blowing things out of the water, I believe you do not understand the reasons why it upset me and since this is a forum, I am allowed to voice an opinion as much as you are.

I don’t care where anyone is from (which was one of my points from the beginning) on this forum, as long as they love the Pumpkins. I admit – it was upsetting to me to read how much people do not like the US and I didn’t feel it should be relevant to this forum. I fully admit that I was upset when I posted my remarks but I am not sorry for what I wrote — I just feel that we should have moved it to a separate thread.

It’s fine that you don’t like what I have to say or that you don’t understand where I am coming from. I respect that and just wish you could respect what I had to say about the issue, as well. Things that may not seem a big deal to you might be a huge deal to someone else and vice versa. If it were the other way around, instead of being angry and saying I am blowing things out of proportion, I would have taken the time to ask why this upset you so much.

All that being said, this is way off the subject of the forum. If you want to discuss this further that is fine. You can post it as a new thread so all can read or you can private message me. Or we can meet in the middle and let our opinions lay where they are and respect one another.

~luxe

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On Tree_Spirit wrote:

Clearly i had to tell that i am very Educated,for some reason you didn’t think I didn’t know what yank meant.Clearly a 2 year old knows what it is and means.Very much of insult to me.

No ,i don’t always agree with peoples opinion.I don’t argue with people here online.For that fact is it is sinceless and immature to do so.I see no point in it.I also see no point in blowing something out of the water ,that wasn’t meant to be something you thought it was.If you don’t like what someone says,it best to not say nothing ask them what they mean first before you jump and start something or say something about it.As for being off the subject stop again adding fuel to the fire.We all can get along.Don’t be so super senative,like person said they didn’t mean what you thought,you blow it up to something it not.I’m done commenting on the subject period.

by the way Kit’n you rock,someone jump for nothing and you be the bigger person about it.That’s totally kwel in my book.Hats off to ya. :)

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On luxe wrote:

Clearly i had to tell that i am very Educated,for some reason you didn’t think I didn’t know what yank meant.Clearly a 2 year old knows what it is and means.Very much of insult to me.

No ,i don’t always agree with peoples opinion.I don’t argue with people here online.For that fact is it is sinceless and immature to do so.I see no point in it.I also see no point in blowing something out of the water ,that wasn’t meant to be something you thought it was.If you don’t like what someone says,it best to not say nothing ask them what they mean first before you jump and start something or say something about it.As for being off the subject stop again adding fuel to the fire.We all can get along.Don’t be so super senative,like person said they didn’t mean what you thought,you blow it up to something it not.I’m done commenting on the subject period.

by the way Kit’n you rock,someone jump for nothing and you be the bigger person about it.That’s totally kwel in my book.Hats off to ya. :)[/quote:x0eu6h99]

Bravo, Tree_Spirit. I defer to your superior wisdom (and grammar). :P

ps/Kit’n you do rock and I do appreciate your input. It was valuable and objective. :D

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On Tree_Spirit wrote:

Bravo and i can tell your age to.I say a kid.If your not, boy that’s sad.

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On luxe wrote:

Bravo and i can tell your age to.I say a kid.If your not boy that’s sad.[/quote:3j98xsm5]

I am not even going to dignify that with a response. As I suggested earlier, if you want to continue this debate, then start a new thread or PM me.

~luxe

(ooh, I’d better log off and go to bed. I have kindergarten in the morning).

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On Tree_Spirit wrote:

I dont want to pm you or talk to you.Or debate you either or anthing other wise after insulting me thanks.It’s ended.Have a day .

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On luxe wrote:

I dont want to pm you or talk to you.Or debate you either or anthing other wise after insulting me thanks.It’s ended.Have a day .[/quote:3epjm6eg]

Cheers to you also.

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On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

Way to go, kids.

No lollipops for anyone. Sorry.

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On Tree_Spirit wrote:

Way to go, kids.

No lollipops for anyone. Sorry.[/quote:28ynfnky]

That’s ok cool.I don’t eat candy much :P

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