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Forum: Collecting Items

Topic: How Many 1991 Gish Vinyl Versions Exist?

This topic contains 13 replies, has 1,334 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Sven Sven 4 years, 9 months ago.

On Sven wrote:

i always thought there were 6 90s era versions of gish on vinyl:

US 1991
DE 1991
UK 1991
KR 1991
UK 1994 Remaster
US 1994 Remaster (although, not called out)

my thought was, they pressed a few in the US under the 0 17046 17051 2 barcode. and then they repressed the exact same vinyl in 1994, didn’t mention it was remastered, and that’s why it’s IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish a 1991 pressing from any and all subsequent represses of the album.

well today, i found a seller with a legitimate 1991 US pressing, as it was signed by the band in 1991. i was surprised to hear this, so i asked a few follow up questions. turns out, it was merely the DE import, with the 0 17046 17051 2 barcode slapped over the original barcode. but even this, i find interesting. they had the US barcode prepared in 1991, i guess exclusively to place over imports until they manufactured their own legitimate pressing, perhaps in very late 1991/early 1992? there is no way they waited until 1994 to get the US pressing out there.

i guess what my bottom line is, there never was a US 1991 gish pressing, at least, not at the same time as all the others. but virgin had the barcode available IN 1991.

so when, in fact, did the US pressing actually appear?

in my time of dying
Profile photo of jawn till dusk
Participant
On jawn till dusk wrote:

This won’t answer your question but ,was the first press (Caroline),not actually a German pressing,meaning there was never really a US 91 pressing?

Also have you ever seen a UK remaster(HUT 94) with a fold out sleeve?
Mine is just the standard sleeve.

Profile photo of jawn till dusk
Participant
On jawn till dusk wrote:

Think I’ve just repeated what you were asking. :oops:

Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

There was no physical US pressing in 91.
The 91 Caroline LPs were made in Germany because it was the cheapest way to go.
In 91 it took HUT a couple of months (till August i think) to press the LP in the UK.

All Caroline LPs from 91 are manufactured in Germany.
All HUT LPs from 91 are manufactured in the UK.

True US Caroline LP pressings are all from 94 and remastered.

The LPs sold in the US from 91 with the Caroline barcode sticker are technically NOT a German import. These were made in Germany, but sold through the US label Caroline. These LPs were just made in Germany. These LPs were not released by Caroline Germany to be exact.

As far as I know all sleeves are the same for the original pressings and the remastered ones; the re-issue as a gatefold sleeve.

Gish on vinyl:
91 Caroline Records US (manufactured in Germany)
91 HUT Records UK (manufactured in the UK)
91 Caroline Records/EMI KR (manufactured under Caroline US license in Korea)
94 Virgin Records US (remastered) (manufactured in the US)
94 HUT Records UK (remastered) (manufactured in the UK)

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

the only US copy i know is the one with the more modern Caroline Rec logo. CAROL 1705. it’s definitely remastered, as it has \"HUTLPX2\" in the matrix code (which is the code of the ’94 UK remastered version – no way would they include that in the matrix code before 1994), but nowhere on the artwork does it mention being the remastered version.

also, i’ve always thought that the US release was released years after 1994. as if caroline decided to press a reissue in the US. my guess: early 2000s. i remember finding lots of new copies in that period.
dunno. is it confirmed to be a 1994 release? or is this just a guess?
i see spfreaks lists 2000 as the release year: http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … &item=2667

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i’m surprised you thought there was a ’91 US version, derek. surely you would have been able to get your hands on a copy by now, if that was the case. no?

same goes for lull, right? this was only pressed by hut in the UK. there never was a US version.

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

All Caroline LPs from 91 are manufactured in Germany.[/quote:2mpnm2e9]

The KR one was manufactured in Germany?

The LPs sold in the US from 91 with the Caroline barcode sticker are technically NOT a German import. These were made in Germany, but sold through the US label Caroline. These LPs were just made in Germany. These LPs were not released by Caroline Germany to be exact.[/quote:2mpnm2e9]

I disagree. The only reason I disagree is for one reason: there are two distinct barcodes. If the initial Gish was pressed in Germany with the intent of being released in the US and NOT Germany, then why didn’t they put the US barcode on it when it was pressed? Because, it’s a German release. And when it is/was sold in the US, they imported it from Germany and put a US barcode sticker over it. If it was just pressed in Germany, and always intended to be imported to the US, there is no reason to have two barcodes.

As far as I know all sleeves are the same for the original pressings and the remastered ones; the re-issue as a gatefold sleeve.[/quote:2mpnm2e9]

Agree, I don’t know of any gate-fold 90s era Gish sleeves.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

also, i’ve always thought that the US release was released years after 1994. as if caroline decided to press a reissue in the US. my guess: early 2000s. i remember finding lots of new copies in that period.
dunno. is it confirmed to be a 1994 release? or is this just a guess?
i see spfreaks lists 2000 as the release year: http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … &item=2667[/quote:yogowxgm]

well, i bought several copies of the US caroline pressing in 1996 from my local record store, so i believe it probably was pressed in 1994. i also think you are right as well. didn’t we conclude that around the same time a bunch of siamese dream albums were reissued/repressed (orange) and especially the black US version around 2000? i think this is why you saw the influx of available US gish records around the same time, because they just repressed gish as well as siamese dream. they never repressed pisces, mellon collie, or adore, though, and machina had just been released so there was no reason to repress that one.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

i’m surprised you thought there was a ’91 US version, derek. surely you would have been able to get your hands on a copy by now, if that was the case. no?

same goes for lull, right? this was only pressed by hut in the UK. there never was a US version.[/quote:1z9wy7w3]

that’s the thing though. i was operating under the premise that it’s impossible to distinguish a 1991 pressing of gish from any subsequent pressings. the remaster is not mentioned like it is on the UK remaster, so it makes it rather difficult to tell when in the hell it was made.

i think your point about the matrix code is extremely valid and basically puts the nail in the coffin, but i just always thought there was an original US 1991 pressing. i guess i am finally proven wrong. :(

yeah, i’ve never seen a US lull. it doesn’t exist. no peel sessions either, but for some reason i never thought there was. ???

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

yeah, i’ve never seen a US lull. it doesn’t exist. no peel sessions either, but for some reason i never thought there was. ???[/quote:3b0h6roi]

correct, both were UK domestic only releases.

indeed, i’d say the US pressing for Gish was in 94.

somehow i still think SD and PI (plus, maybe even Adore) never went out of print as these are very easy to find.

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

There was no physical US pressing in 91.
The 91 Caroline LPs were made in Germany because it was the cheapest way to go.
In 91 it took HUT a couple of months (till August i think) to press the LP in the UK.

Gish on vinyl:
91 Caroline Records US (manufactured in Germany)
91 HUT Records UK (manufactured in the UK)[/quote:3h1l9zg4]
so you’re saying that every copy of the album in the US was a german CARLP16. (and never a HUTLP2.) right?

this is how i heard the story went: the first copies of gish were pressed in germany. CARLP16. but then, for whatever reason – i think the pumpkins moving to/signing with HUT – this changed, and they stopped pressing the german one, and started pressing the UK Hut one. (related to this change, i thought: their repeated rescheduling of the promo tour in the UK, see also the changing dates on the i am one flexi.)
i always assumed that after this change, the US started seeing Hut copies.
it does make sense though that the promo copies were German Caroline ones: the Hut pressing didn’t exist at the time the promos were given out.

an example of this move from germany to the uk: i have a copy of gish that has a Hut record, and a Hut outer sleeve, but still has a Caroline inner sleeve. The code CARLP16 in one of the corners of the inner sleeve is blacked out. unless someone has been messing with different copies, which seems highly unlikely to me, this shows that Hut used the leftover inner sleeves from the caroline pressing.

what do you think?

Profile photo of jawn till dusk
Participant
On jawn till dusk wrote:

As far as I know all sleeves are the same for the original pressings and the remastered ones; the re-issue as a gatefold sleeve.[/quote:2yvlokba]

Agree, I don’t know of any gate-fold 90s era Gish sleeves.

Oh,cool.

I was referring to the pressing in the SPfreaks collection.I take it it was just small error?

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Oh,cool.

I was referring to the pressing in the SPfreaks collection.I take it it was just small error?[/quote:3maf3psj]

yup, small error, i’ll fix that. thanks for noticing. :)

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:
There was no physical US pressing in 91.
The 91 Caroline LPs were made in Germany because it was the cheapest way to go.
In 91 it took HUT a couple of months (till August i think) to press the LP in the UK.

Gish on vinyl:
91 Caroline Records US (manufactured in Germany)
91 HUT Records UK (manufactured in the UK)[/quote:337zjn52]
so you’re saying that every copy of the album in the US was a german CARLP16. (and never a HUTLP2.) right?

this is how i heard the story went: the first copies of gish were pressed in germany. CARLP16. but then, for whatever reason – i think the pumpkins moving to/signing with HUT – this changed, and they stopped pressing the german one, and started pressing the UK Hut one. (related to this change, i thought: their repeated rescheduling of the promo tour in the UK, see also the changing dates on the i am one flexi.)
i always assumed that after this change, the US started seeing Hut copies.
it does make sense though that the promo copies were German Caroline ones: the Hut pressing didn’t exist at the time the promos were given out.

an example of this move from germany to the uk: i have a copy of gish that has a Hut record, and a Hut outer sleeve, but still has a Caroline inner sleeve. The code CARLP16 in one of the corners of the inner sleeve is blacked out. unless someone has been messing with different copies, which seems highly unlikely to me, this shows that Hut used the leftover inner sleeves from the caroline pressing.

what do you think?[/quote:337zjn52]

possible yes that the initial US run was pressed in Germany. subsequent ones might have been UK pressings. even with Caroline sleeves that is yep.

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