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Forum: Collecting Items

Topic: How To Grade & Value Smashing Pumpkins 7\" vinyl rarities?

This topic contains 30 replies, has 3,917 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of manillascissor manillascissor 9 years, 6 months ago.

On manillascissor wrote:

As we all know there is this \"Smashing Pumpkins Current Rarities Values\" online at http://blamo.org/sp/guide/ by Shawn Turner and Aaron Grant. The latest update on that price guide is done in 2000 (\"updated october 4th, 2000\" it says), so I would humbly call it \"outdated & far from current\". However, pretty cool job they did in the old days anyway. Thanks guys!

SPfreaks Collection wants to become the new and updated Pricing Guide for Smashing Pumpkins collectors. Not only for vinyl and cd’s, but for the whole online collection. I’m going to ask RedWolf to add 5 value fields to the Item Pages (now there’s only 1, called \"Collector price (approx) : price in US dollars\") and I want to start pricing the Vinyl Category, 7\" singles first. In a little while we will have all the vinyl uploaded (also the known vinyl without pics), and as it is less than or around 100 items in total, it’s a good place to start.

My suggestion is to start with 6 Grades according to this page:

http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=HOWTOGRADING&full=true

being M (mint), Ex (excellent), VG (very good), G (good), F (fair) and P/B (poor/bad).

First of all, is this a good idea? Are the 6 Grades OK to you? The answer to the first question I already know… When I consider the many many emails we get for valueing items people wanna buy or have bought… I would say: YES! You have seen one of those type of emails by Alekflyfire appear on the board recently.

Both my American webmaster and me are too busy, either in private life/job or other parts of this website, so do I have your support to do this? Is there somebody willing to take the old pricelist of Shawn Turner and Aaron Grant, send them an email to have them involved if they like (I don’t have their emails, maybe 1 of you has), and from there on we work our way to a full graphical, online catalogue with the most comprehensive Pricing Guide ever created for 1 band? Who’s with us?

Let me know. 8)
Arthur

PS this Pet Shop Boys 7\" is on sale on eil.com for US$ 5,050.00. I wonder if any Pumpkins 7\" will ever reach such prices.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i’m not sure if it’s interesting to have price estimates for the worst conditions (fair and poor). does anyone care about the value of a wrecked i am one 7\"? and how would one decide how much an almost unplayable i am one 7\" with a ruined sleeve is worth, taking into account that most collectors aren’t really interested in an item like that? doesn’t seem easy to me, but i might be wrong. maybe there’s an easy rule for deciding these prices.

this is just how i see it. if someone thinks it’s useful to have prices for 6 conditions, then let nothing stop you.

Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

PS this Pet Shop Boys 7" is on sale on eil.com for US$ 5,050.00. I wonder if any Pumpkins 7" will ever reach such prices.[/quote:3sggtpuo] seeing as i’ve never heard of them before, i’ll say yes :) if a band i don’t knwo can do, dammit, pumpkins can!
and the rating thing is a good idea. unfortuanately, i am no collector, but it would give me an idea on how best to keep my vinyls etc.
plus, if i ever bump into a rare SP vinyl anywhere, i won’t be juped into paying too much for it :wink: (although, with ebay as it is, the random market encounter seems less likely than ever :( )

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

seeing as i’ve never heard of them before, i’ll say yes :) if a band i don’t knwo can do, dammit, pumpkins can![/quote:2tmchdnr]
you might need to open your mind a little. just because you have never heard of them before, doesn’t mean they’re less known than the pumpkins.

Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

you might need to open your mind a little. just because you have never heard of them before, doesn’t mean they’re less known than the pumpkins.[/quote:35xqvlkk] haha i know :) just having a little joke :)

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

ok then.

i don’t think a pumpkins 7\" will ever reach $5,000 on ebay.
i can’t think of any rarity that would be worth so much, or that is so rare that people would bid $5,000 for it.

Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

ok then.

i don’t think a pumpkins 7" will ever reach $5,000 on ebay.
i can’t think of any rarity that would be worth so much, or that is so rare that people would bid $5,000 for it.[/quote:17jmzzrn]
rarity wise… maybe mashed potatoes? En Concierto En Mexico? they’re pretty rare…
and i believe Machina 2 was gong for over $1000 dollars when it was on ebay that one time… before it was pulled off. it may have gone for considerably mroe if it had been allowed to continue…

ah well, it all comes down to how many people here of the bid, and how many people even know the real rarity of an item…

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

i’m not sure if it’s interesting to have price estimates for the worst conditions (fair and poor). does anyone care about the value of a wrecked i am one 7"? and how would one decide how much an almost unplayable i am one 7" with a ruined sleeve is worth, taking into account that most collectors aren’t really interested in an item like that? doesn’t seem easy to me, but i might be wrong. maybe there’s an easy rule for deciding these prices.

this is just how i see it. if someone thinks it’s useful to have prices for 6 conditions, then let nothing stop you.[/quote:xvy7yezs]
I’m with you. It would all be 1-5 bucks anyway, common knowledge. The other 4 grades can stay.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:
ok then.

i don’t think a pumpkins 7" will ever reach $5,000 on ebay.
i can’t think of any rarity that would be worth so much, or that is so rare that people would bid $5,000 for it.[/quote:299bu4y6]
rarity wise… maybe mashed potatoes? En Concierto En Mexico? they’re pretty rare…
and i believe Machina 2 was gong for over $1000 dollars when it was on ebay that one time… before it was pulled off. it may have gone for considerably mroe if it had been allowed to continue…

ah well, it all comes down to how many people here of the bid, and how many people even know the real rarity of an item…[/quote:299bu4y6]
well, those are not 7" releases.

en concierto en mexico is very rare, but i’m sure you could relatively easily find one for less than $1,000.

and machina II reached $10,000, not $1,000. so yes, this is a good example of a pumpkins release that would top that pet shop boys auction.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

and i believe Machina 2 was gong for over $1000 dollars when it was on ebay that one time… before it was pulled off. it may have gone for considerably mroe if it had been allowed to continue…[/quote:2cezfmfr]
Make that 10,000 US$. It was withdrawn from eBay as Billy Corgan bought it back from the seller if I’m right. He absolutely didn’t want any copy to be on the free market. But we are not discussing MII here, we are discussing SPfreaks becoming the new comprehensive Price Guide here, starting with the Smashing Pumpkins 7 inches. Who can help? Please?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

It was withdrawn from eBay as Billy Corgan bought it back from the seller if I’m right. He absolutely didn’t want any copy to be on the free market.[/quote:2gofmc4l]
As far as I know, this is not what happened.
Unless you have some sources I don’t know about?
This explanation could match up with some of the things I do know, so I’m really interested to hear more about it; although I heard another story that also makes sense.
Where did you hear this, about Billy Corgan stopping the auction?

Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

from my understanding, it reached either over 1000US$ or 10000US$, but was preamturely removed by the seller, as he didn’t realise that it would go so high, and didnt think it was fair.

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Where did you hear this, about Billy Corgan stopping the auction?[/quote:14fpu7e3]
Can’t tell much I’m afraid, as it was 1 of those rumours going around at that time. I’m sure you read/heard this also. As the second part (Billy doesn’t want any copies to be on the free market) is pretty true & common knowledge as far as I know, that rumour about Billy buying it back was the most attractive to me. :P

But again, can we stick to the subject of this thread please? You’re happily invited to start up a new thread about the Machina II vinyl and all, but I’m no good source for any vinyl. I’m no collector of it you see… :? (However, you can ask me anything about South American CD releases and Asian CD releases… :D )

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

However, you can ask me anything about South American CD releases and Asian CD releases… :D [/quote:6v284uor] ooh, specialised! :lol:

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

I will contact Shawn and Aaron. I don’t really know them, but I know where I can contact them. I will point them to this thread, so that they can join if they want to.

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

Shawn already answerred that he would love to help.

:)

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Shawn already answerred that he would love to help.

:)[/quote:3qn7djmx]
Both you and Shawn are just awesome! 1,000,000 kuddos to you 2! :D

Let’s see if Aaron can be involved too, just to share the tasks and make it an easier job for each of us.

Meanwhile I contacted RedWolf and he promised to build the 3 extra fields, and change the existing field to Price Mint Condition. He thinks it can be done by the end of the week. I will keep you updated on that part.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

hey, good move guys. im waiting for this also. kudo’s to you indeed

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Meanwhile I’m working my ass off to have all known 7 inches on the SPfreaks site. Some questions about the Siamese Singles occur, maybe 1 of you guys knows this.

1. Rocket
SPFC states nothing about a 7\" test pressing for Rocket.
Shawn/Aaron state: \"Rocket peach vinyl TEST PRESS Hut Records ~10 copies\"
SPfreaks shows this: http://www.spfreaks.com/Default.aspx?pa … &item=1115 (it’s black!)

Is there a peach colored test pressing for Rocket besides the black one? :?

2. Cherub Rock, Today and Disarm
Shawn/Aaron state: \"Siamese Singles 4×7\" TEST PRESSING (all 4) Hut Records ~10 copies\"

Obviously we got the black vinyl Rocket test pressing on our website, I presume there will be black test pressings for those other 3 also. Has any of you seen them?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i don’t know. except for some 12\" white label promos, i haven’t seen anything that looks like a test pressing.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Thanks. For the moment I gave them an entry anyway, as I presume Shawn and Aaron know what they are talking about. And given the fact a Rocket black vinyl test press has surfaced… it makes sense to me.

The good news is, I think I have uploaded all Smashing Pumpkins 7 inches. They can be found here:

http://www.spfreaks.com/Default.aspx?pa … NDEX&cat=2 (put the \"Format\" search field to <7\" Single> and it will return \"There are 38 items found.\").

I have changed and added quite a lot there.

-Format (only the inch sizes to choose from)
-Release code (color of vinyl added)
-Amount pressed (based on Shawn/Aaron’s info, when estimated it is mentioned in the Extra Information field)
-Release dates of Siamese Singles set to July 1994, test pressings to June 1994. I have asked around and it was known that just before the 1994 tour ended in August/September 1994, this box set was released. This makes sense timeframe-wise as Disarm single was released March 1994 and Picses Iscariot in October 1994.
-Lots of Extra Information added.
-Many (not all) studio Location(s) added

Now we need to wait for the extra Pricing fields (Price Mint Condition, Price Excellent Condition, Price Very Good Condition and Price Good Condition) and the updated valuation of those items. When any of you has more info or corrections on the 7\" part, don’t hesitate to post it here!

Meanwhile I will continue uploading the last vinyl from the scan session of last Saturday, amongst them a pretty cool promo pack of Light Into Dark…

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Black Cherub Rock 7\" T/P recently (w/i 3 months or so) went for $565 US.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Black Cherub Rock 7" T/P recently (w/i 3 months or so) went for $565 US.[/quote:3px43dsr]
Thanks manillascissor! I put that as a reminder here: http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=1881

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

For your information, both the SQL database and the website lay-out have been adjusted pretty nicely for this new SPfreaks Pricing Guide feature. Thanks to RedWolf!

http://www.spfreaks.com/Default.aspx?pa … &item=1878

That’s a first example of how it works. All available fields are filled in now, so they show on the website. The webmasters can play around with them, show all of them on the site, don’t show them on the site, or show the text \"\". Extremely easy to use. And it works independently per item! Well, whatever, tech thingy for the webmasters.

Well, let me explain anyway. It means 1 item can only have Price Mint and Price Excellent only, while another item can have Price Excellent and Price Very Good and Price Good only. We have left \"Collector price (approx)\" there for those items that are 1 of a kind. It will not be used on items that can be graded Mint, Excellent etc. Fair and Poor gradings can be used anyway when they are appropriate.

Another (silly) example here: http://www.spfreaks.com/Default.aspx?pa … ILS&item=3

Anyway, in the upcoming times you’ll hopefully see these fields being used. I hope this new feature will be to your likings and your collecting needs, and will make this SPfreaks experience even more fun for you.

And now, bring in the (updated) pricelists! :D

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

hey nice job man! but that shawn list is still kinda ok, does it need to be updated anyway?

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Black Cherub Rock 7" T/P recently (w/i 3 months or so) went for $565 US.[/quote:31p4ts6h]
manillascissor, do you happen to have kept pics of that auction (eBay) or sale? We really would like to have that on our website! And do you happen to know if there are more surfaced test pressings? I wonder if it is a good idea to have them all without pics on the SPfreaks website… Maybe not… only when there is 100% proof of their existence. Sometimes test pressings didn’t survive or went into the commercial sleeve and were sold anyway, get what I mean? Hope to hear from you soon!

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Hey Arthur
Let me see what I can find. May be able to find pic, however the auction may be too old. However, I think I know of someone who also owns a copy, I can ask them to submit here on SPFreaks.

I know there are colored Today and Disarm 7\" test presses. I know there are black Cherub Rock, Rocket, and Disarm 7\" test presses. That’s all I KNOW exists, but I imagine the whole lot (black and colored) are probably out there.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Hey Arthur
Let me see what I can find. May be able to find pic, however the auction may be too old. However, I think I know of someone who also owns a copy, I can ask them to submit here on SPFreaks.

I know there are colored Today and Disarm 7" test presses. I know there are black Cherub Rock, Rocket, and Disarm 7" test presses. That’s all I KNOW exists, but I imagine the whole lot (black and colored) are probably out there.[/quote:22a06etr]
Thanks manillascissor. Also check please if I entered unconfirmed vinyl. We used to be very graphical, and why not stay that way as long as possible… :wink:

And who brings in the updated price lists? Cool As Ice Cream, did you hear anything from Shawn alright?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

Shawn already answerred that he would love to help.[/quote:3t54tzfx]

Cool As Ice Cream, did you hear anything from Shawn alright?[/quote:3t54tzfx]
Looks like I did.

He’s waiting until he’s told how he can help. I thought we were waiting until the vinyl section was completely updated. And then, I don’t know. Tell me?

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

He’s waiting until he’s told how he can help. I thought we were waiting until the vinyl section was completely updated. And then, I don’t know. Tell me?[/quote:2hlw2249]
Ah ok, sorry for the misunderstanding. I was hoping it all was kinda clear already. The plans were:

-Ask Shawn/Aaron (done)
-Create Grade-Value fields (done)
-Update 7" section (done)
-Enter prices for 7" section
-Work from there…

All things done were announced in this thread. I think we have reached the "Enter prices for 7" section" stage. When Shawn could provide us an updated list of the 7" values now (incl. 2 Zwan singles I remember, ahem…) that will be entered then, and discussed here.

After we like what we see, or change/delete/update what we don’t like, we continue with the 10" and the 12".

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

I can confirm that the black Disarm 7\" black TP exists as well, as I am lucky enough to own a copy. :D

in my time of dying

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