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Forum: Collecting Items

Topic: Machina II on eBay?

This topic contains 42 replies, has 2,783 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of marigold marigold 5 years, 1 month ago.

On marigold wrote:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smashing-Pumpki … 4d01bbfdd9

you be the judge…

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Looks genuine… But if genuine, Billy will most probably not approve this…

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

is the real thing.

is most likely NOT the Metro-copy though.
i just can not see Joe sell this now.
at least: not without BCs permission and then it would have been for charity.

who’s copy this is?

i don’t know, but i surely don’t have enough money to acquire this for the collection right now…

Profile photo of geofolkers
Moderator
On geofolkers wrote:

take a look at what else they are selling. look close at it. im guessing this is the Q101 copy.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

take a look at what else they are selling. look close at it. im guessing this is the Q101 copy.[/quote:aozx91kd]
Very clever research, Geo, I can see how you come to that conclusion. And my guess is that you are right.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

take a look at what else they are selling. look close at it. im guessing this is the Q101 copy.[/quote:31z5xpqc]
why?

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i also think this is real.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330741579225

i mean, i can’t know for sure, as i’ve never seen detailed pictures of the real thing. but i remember reading that the sleeves were taped, and you can see that happen in one of the pictures.
also, if billy says it’s \"too good to be true\", this means he can’t see anything wrong with it. so it could very well be real. maybe he just can’t believe someone is selling it. as a conclusion, he bets it’s fake.

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

take a look at what else they are selling. look close at it. im guessing this is the Q101 copy.[/quote:36mdzrd7]
i now know for sure that this is the Q101 copy, but for another reason than you. (i still don’t understand how you concluded this.)

my reason:
it’s the same seller as back in august 2005: http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI…unipertreeblue
i remember the seller was called selling4supper back then.

i can’t remember if she ever properly proved that this was a real copy, but her story was that her friend or boyfriend gave it to her, after buying it at a silent auction for about $400. it’s the q101 copy. i think she said it was numbered 19/25, but we haven’t seen any pictures of that.

Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:
take a look at what else they are selling. look close at it. im guessing this is the Q101 copy.[/quote:16notvvx]
i now know for sure that this is the Q101 copy, but for another reason than you. (i still don’t understand how you concluded this.)[/quote:16notvvx]

me too and i just can not believe they are doing this!!!

as per BC’s reaction on Twitter: exactly right you just said Bram.
he still has copies left, the ones given out were gifts NOT TO BE SOLD!!!!
i can imagine BC will up the ante to re-acquire this one too…

I must say though: this is a VERY used copy judging per the labels et al.
you can only play these acetates around 25 times before degradation hits big time!
so what are you buying then???

well at least BC knows the offer still stands and holds to this very day.
will see…

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

if the story of the seller from back in 2005 is true (q101 gave it away for a charity auction), then this copy already got sold before 2005. and the woman who owns it now has no obligation towards billy to never sell it.

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

I must say though: this is a VERY used copy judging per the labels et al.
you can only play these acetates around 25 times before degradation hits big time!
so what are you buying then???[/quote:1b38kotr]
agreed.
even if you could acquire a brand new copy, would it be worth the thousands of dollars?
the only reason to buy this is to have it in your collection. not to listen to it. right?

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:
take a look at what else they are selling. look close at it. im guessing this is the Q101 copy.[/quote:1c9pfw4j]
i now know for sure that this is the Q101 copy, but for another reason than you. (i still don’t understand how you concluded this.)[/quote:1c9pfw4j]
Easy. Look at the second auction and check the pic with the name plate.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

ok, i’ve seen the inscription on the APC award now.

now the question is: is this ebay seller the same person that received this award (ebay username history mentions a mary)? or is her story about the auction, and getting this from her friend, all true? maybe this APC award was also bought at this Q101 auction.

in the case that this is the same mary, then the story changes though. this means she used to work at Q101 and took the machina II copy with her (allowed or not allowed). this would also mean that there never was an auction, etc. and that she made that whole thing up. now that would be a bit fishy… did she kind of steal it from Q101? is that why she pulled the plug on the auction back in 2005? was she afraid that it was going to get too much attention and that she would be found out?
or was her story true, and was she genuinely afraid that her friend or ex-friend who gave it to her, was going to find out about her selling it? and has that situation changed now?

Profile photo of geofolkers
Moderator
On geofolkers wrote:

my only other question would be, why the metro paper?

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Billy Corgan ‏@Billy
@MonteLDS if Machina 2 is the Q101 copy than it should not be made available for sale because it was given as promo only and SP owns rights

=============================================================================================================

\"In 2007, mega record company Universal Music Group (UMG) sued a music seller named Troy Augusto, who made money selling promo discs on eBay they gave him, saying that doing so violated the company’s licensing agreement banning any sale of such copies. In UMG vs. Augusto, however, the Ninth Court held up a 2008 lower court ruling in favor of Augusto that said promos were \"gifts\" under federal law, with this one also ruling in his favor that \"having just a stamp on a CD label cannot a make a recipient abide by a licensing agreement. As a result, individuals may resell promotional CDs as they wish, regardless of warnings….

UMG tried to get away with the weak argument that they transferred the license of these promos to Augusto and that he therefore violated copyright law bey reselling them on eBay, when in actuality they transferred not a license but ownership of those discs to him.

The other big legal issue here was whether the \"first sale doctrine\" protected Augusto, which says that consumers (or purchasers) can do what they want with items like music CDs, DVDs or books after they get transferred to them. The Court ruled it did, so in this case, the original copyright owner (UMG) lost its ability to control sales of its items once it gave them to another person like Augusto.\"

Read more: http://blogcritics.org/music/article/mu … z1wUS1odzI

in my time of dying
Profile photo of geofolkers
Moderator
On geofolkers wrote:

and i just tweeted billys responce \"if machina II is the Q101 copy then it should not be made available for sale because it was givin as a promo only and SP owns rights\"

Profile photo of geofolkers
Moderator
On geofolkers wrote:

only thing i can think is that these are acetates first. there maybe different laws because the fact they are acetates.

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

it boils down to this:

these were unsolicited items sent to recipients in the mail as gifts. no money was exchanged. plain and simple. ownership is immediately passed to the recipient and they are legally allowed to resell.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

also, if this really was sold ten years ago at an auction for charity that q101 donated many items to, then billy’s a little late protesting against the sale. it already got sold ten years ago. do you think the new owner knows that this is supposed to be a promotional item and that billy still owns the rights? it’s not like the set has any information regarding copyright, being promotional, whatever.

i find billy’s reaction (phony pony, sp owns rights) quite pathetic, to be honest.
maybe he’s disappointed that a copy ended up on ebay, but this is not a good way to go about it.
and where was he the last time it was on ebay? was it all ok then? it’s the same copy and the same seller.

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330741579225

Q: What number is this Machina 2?
A: It is not numbered. I do not see a number anywhere stating which number of 25 this is. I am not sure if there is supposed to be a number. The only things numbered are what I took photos of which are the album sequence. Thanks for your interest.[/quote:yq54klpx]
didn’t she say it was numbered the last time? (number 19.)

she’s once again doing quite a bad job convincing people that this is real.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

It doesn’t matter, people already know it is real as f*ck. Price just went over 6,700 US$, I wonder if it will hit the 10k again. Wouldn’t surprise me if it does, with over 1 day to go still.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i think it’s a bit crazy she only has a three day auction.
why not let people bid for one week? wouldn’t that give a better result?
some people might not find out in time.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Probably she hopes to get away with it this time, unlike the other time she tried to sell it. When it hit the 10k barrier that time, the auction was stopped, and everybody wondered why. I remember people suggesting that Billy bought it back behind the screens, but obviously that did not happen. Maybe she got a letter from Billy’s lawyer/management back then, that scared the shit out of her. But now she tries again…!?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of alladnzane
Participant
On alladnzane wrote:

SACRILEGE… we live bad times.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:
I must say though: this is a VERY used copy judging per the labels et al.
you can only play these acetates around 25 times before degradation hits big time!
so what are you buying then???[/quote:2fh53g9z]
agreed.
even if you could acquire a brand new copy, would it be worth the thousands of dollars?
the only reason to buy this is to have it in your collection. not to listen to it. right?[/quote:2fh53g9z]
This copy looks rather crisp to me, but I checked the pics only on my mobile phone to be honest. The inner sleeves are good, the outer sleeves look shiny, and some discoloring on the labels does not mean it has been played heavily. Just my 2 cents…

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Just my 2 cents…[/quote:4c18z4cb]

keep providing. it’s going to take a lot of two cents to acquire this bad boy…

in my time of dying
Profile photo of marigold
Participant
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Probably she hopes to get away with it this time, unlike the other time she tried to sell it. When it hit the 10k barrier that time, the auction was stopped, and everybody wondered why. I remember people suggesting that Billy bought it back behind the screens, but obviously that did not happen. Maybe she got a letter from Billy’s lawyer/management back then, that scared the shit out of her. But now she tries again…!?[/quote:1bqtt2zd]

agree exactly. 3 day auction, people who would notice, notice, and in today’s social networking capacity, the news spreads like wildfire. so why 3 days? in and out.

also, back in 2005, the auction was probably stopped due to some of the claims we have been discussing in this thread. however, it’s 2012, 4 years after that case i mentioned from 2008. perhaps she sells things in 4 year cycles?

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

https://twitter.com/Billy/status/208536290961006592

:?[/quote:2j5ufzui]
How ironical: while the price goes up, the legal status dropped to "inappropriate"… And this might do justice to the whole situation I think.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

8,100 bucks currently. I have a feeling that a few snipers will smash that in the last seconds. And I mean smash it hard. 15,000? Anyone want to bet on that? :wink:

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Surprise, surprise… The listing has ended. :lol:

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzLT6_TQmq8[/youtube]

in my time of dying
Profile photo of marigold
Participant
On marigold wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzuJXqgsiSM[/youtube]

 
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Very appropriate reply followed by very inappropriate reply ^^ :P

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of marigold
Participant
On marigold wrote:

I thought it was appropriate sarcasm :P

 
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Fair enough… :P

But anyway, it looks like Billy’s anger has fallen down on this auction (again?). Let’s see what gossips we hear about this…

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

this is what the seller says:

Sorry but I had to pull this listing … Even though I obtained this item
legitimately I didnt realize that Billy Corgan would have a problem with
the selling of it. I dont want to upset him. I didnt realize it would be
such a big deal.[/quote:3dg5bjlb]

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

I didnt realize that Billy Corgan would have a problem with the selling of it.[/quote:3qiz2n0g]

Billy will most probably not approve this…[/quote:3qiz2n0g]
Seller should have contacted me first before setting up this auction… :P (And what happened in 2005 then? Why was it ended suddenly back then?) Anyway, if Billy is clever he offers this seller a small but still fair price, and claims the return of this Q101 vinyl copy of Machina II back into his possession.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i do believe the situation in 2005 was different.
i think she freaked out, and stopped the auction earlier. she didn’t cancel it though: the highest winner at the moment the auction ended early, was going to get the machina II set. (but then they decided not to go through with it.)
this time she cancelled all bids, and pulled the item.

Profile photo of some pumpkins
Participant
On some pumpkins wrote:

There’s another one up on eBay. Anyone have 11,000 or so USD I can borrow?
The seller has some other great items up for auction.

what's wrong with you is good for what's wrong with me
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Thom…

Who is willing to pay 2,750 US$ per vinyl record? :shock:

Good to see La Saga Racontee on the market again, too.

But back on topic, what will Billy Corgan do this time?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of marigold
Participant
On marigold wrote:

He was against the other one because it was the Q101 copy, right?
Since this one is a gift, and can be resold legally, I don’t think he should be against it.
Or maybe he will. That’s a ridiculous amount of money for a vinyl record.

 

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