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Forum: General

Topic: Mosh Pit Turns Deadly for a Smashing Pumpkins Fan

This topic contains 26 replies, has 3,863 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Superlordspamulon Superlordspamulon 9 years, 6 months ago.

On Superlordspamulon wrote:

This was the title of the story in the Vancouver Sun. I couldn’t believe it when I read it. I was thinking, oh no, not again. I wonder what the band is thinking… it must be tearing them apart. Read the article for yourself:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news … 18&k=66435

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Wow, I’m flabbergasted & silent. What a weird coincidence that just a few days after releasing the 1996 Point Dublin (Ireland) show (we all know what I mean here, and what happened there) on sp.com, this had to happen. I really wonder how the band takes it.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

http://www.oor.nl/news_details.asp?id=4675

still no word from the band or management or label upon trying to contact them for a statement
this tragedy sucks, no matter how this happened (moshing, crowdsurfing or something else altogether) having a fan die at your show sucks…

Profile photo of SNC
Member
On SNC wrote:

Terribly tragic :(

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

I wonder if the younger fans know about the Dublin incident in 1996, so here is some info about it from SPFC’s Listessa. It pretty much covers everything in a few very readable pieces. The same is happening right now, though the circumstances are not exactly clear (yet). It’s pretty sad anyway, and I like to wish everybody involved strength, wisdom and solidarity. We are with you people!

http://www.spfc.org/online/qualityposts … ent_id=534

http://www.spfc.org/online/qualityposts … ent_id=536

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

ah this sucks… so damn unfortunate :(

(side not that may not be well received: anybody else get annoyed when magazines ‘talk’ about people moshing, but only mention crowd surfing, which isnt even moshing? sorry, it just bigs me when people cant get the words right. anyway, if he had been crowd surfing, i don’t see too many problems there, but if he was moshing… these things happen :( )

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

wow! is this news or what. ive been to quite some concerts and seen people faint, go out on drugs or whatever. thats not the bands problem. but they will be shocked anyway. and the guy that died when he was doing wild stuff whatever you call it moshing or crowdsurfing is responsible for his own death. just my opinion. its different from the dublin story as there was this girl crushed to death on the floor doing nothing wrong but being on the wrong place with the wrong sick and stupid audience.

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
Profile photo of lilkitn
Member
On lilkitn wrote:

http://www.metronews.ca/storyCP.aspx?pg=./e092601A.xml

Check out this article. They say they found it odd that when he was found he was not bleeding, bruised, bumped… and it says something about toxicology tests. I’m thinking their guess is likely overdose, or some kind of drug complication. It’s still not a good thing, but at least it would be something that the band wouldn’t feel responsible for.

Kit’n

Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

this is getting rather silly
unless we know of what this dude died we just don’t know
however
i have been front row at several Pumpkins gigs before
and it’s mayhem down there
Bernadette died the same way i could have been injured or have died if i hadn’t crowdsurfed to the front barrier at pukkelpop’s 95 massive surge and moshpit, or @ Ahoy 96 for that matter (first night)
sometimes it’s the only way out of the mayhem
so don’t even go there and tell me it’s irresponsible behaviour
it CAN be, but it doesn’t HAVE to be!!!
no we just have to wait and see what has happend to this dude in Vancouver
some people wait in line too long, get exhausted, get failures of heart of something because of it in all of this mayhem and die; no moshing of themselves, no crowdsurfing to safety, let alon for sheer joy of it
so just wait and see what comes out of this
for as far as i know now there’s yet another tragic death to be mourned over at a concert by my beloved The Smashing Pumpkins – and i’ve mourned severely over Bernadette’s death and the casualties @ Pearl Jam’s Roskilde gig too for it could have been me; so no bitching about moshing idiots or crowdsurfers; sometimes shit gets out of hand and you just don’t have no others option but to crowdsurf your way out of on audience in total moshing frenzy….
just my 2 ct though

Profile photo of lilkitn
Member
On lilkitn wrote:

Yeah, is crazy at the front. I was at the front at Virgin Festival before the Pumpkins got on… like front middle. It was getting so bad I had to get a couple of guys to lift me out… I was having trouble breathing, it was that bad… but I am rather small. It could have totally been a case of moshing, but I’m just really, really hoping it’s not.

Kit’n

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Meanwhile the band speaks.

\"The Smashing Pumpkins were deeply saddened to learn about the passing of a young man who attended their Vancouver show Monday night (September 24). As they and everyone else await news from the investigation into the nature of his passing, the band want to express their sincerest condolences to his family and friends.\"

For me the scariest moments at a concert are when people from the back start pushing to reach the front. Or when they want to enter the moshpit, which is a fenced area just before the stage. When me and my girlfriend entered the moshpit at the Pinkpop gig to see the Pumpkins from close by (not to mosh :P ) I kept close to her and we hold hands all the time, except for a few seconds when the pushing made us loose each other. Later on she told me she was very afraid to fell on the ground and being stepped on. Luckily it didn’t happen and we had fun \\m/ \\m/ anyway, and the people moshing were not all over the mosh pit area. But when they are, you can do nothing. Though I’m a tall (1.99 m) and big, strong guy of almost 100 kg, there’s nothing you can do against 100’s of people going crazy. My advantage is only that I can look over the people and check for a \"safer\" place. And when I was younger I did my fair part of moshing also… Though I was always afraid of loosing my 8) hahaha!

You know when I watch tv for me the moshpit area looks like fun when people jump around and go crazy and do crowdsurfing. But then you don’t see the few individuals that are bothered, get hurt or even injured. Like Sven says, some are close to fainting (and always a few do is my experience), lilkitn reminds us of the people that are small (like my girlfriend) and they can’t even predict where the frenzy will come from or can’t breathe properly. Anyway, I have very mixed feelings about moshing since a long while, and I even stopped attending the huge festivals. Because when I go see the Pumpkins, I always want to see them from close by. But that’s where the danger is also… :?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost.ph … tcount=249

Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

personally, i think that they should set up barriers at large shows, not just in front of the stage, but also further back, to prevent HUGE surges. maybe a couple of barriers?

(a little hint when you’re at shows where there’s surging – clasp your hands together as if praying or similar, put the fist or whatever underneath your chin, and parting your elbows so that they are underneath your ribs… like an upside down v. you’ll still get squashed, it’s uncomfortable, and you can’t rock out as much but you can breathe quite comfortably :) )

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of ClevelandPumpkins
Member
On ClevelandPumpkins wrote:

The article said there were 3800 people in attendance (not a HUGE show) which leaves me wondering if he could have died some way other than moshing?

This is extremely sad, especially following on the heels of the audio released from the Dublin show. :(

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

The article said there were 3800 people in attendance (not a HUGE show) which leaves me wondering if he could have died some way other than moshing?[/quote:w678je3i]
Cool As Ice Cream answers that question already with his link. Behing that link it says:

"just to let you all know, he wasn’t crowd surfing, moshing, doing anything stupid. He was simply on the floor watching the concert, and had a freak seizure and his heart stopped. He had no history of epilepsy, and we had gone to tons of concerts before, so it was just some freak of nature seizure thing that decided to happen at that concert and not some other…"

This is probably said by 1 of his friends that attended the Vancouver show also.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of zenunderground
Member
On zenunderground wrote:

Reminds me when Tool hadnt toured in years and the APC came out.. Both the Tool and A Perfect Circle Shows were nuts, and literally scared me.. I remember thinking that If I lost my footing and hit the ground at Tool there’d be no way to get up.. Sometimes the surges are so powerful that you are pushed to an angle where there is no way you should still be standing, but its also so packed that you are held up.. but your feet have officially lost the ground.. scary shit..

at a perfect circle, those metal bars just happen to be the perfect height to stop your breathing when pressed against them.. i lost conciousness for just a second at that show, but i was being pulled out by then.

it can be very scary, very powerful, and not underestimated!

Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

it can be very scary, very powerful, and not underestimated![/quote:krsghjnu]
yeah i had the same with sepultura when they played this song roots everybody went crazy. some big guy bumped me over but other people picked me up so i was smiling. but it scared me the looks in some guys eyes it was like they are on a suicide mission in the mosh pit. and its not guys business only i see many girls do it also hahaha!

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
Profile photo of toad32r
Participant
On toad32r wrote:

My heart goes out to the family and friends of the individual lost at the show(s). Im sure they will be at every SP show from now on, with the best seats in the house. Godspeed…

Ribbit...Toad-----------------Toads are really underated!!
Profile photo of ClevelandPumpkins
Member
On ClevelandPumpkins wrote:

Looks like we won’t know what killed the young man: http://www.wltx.com/FYI/story.aspx?storyid=54040

Interesting…

Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

Looks like we won’t know what killed the young man: http://www.wltx.com/FYI/story.aspx?storyid=54040

Interesting…[/quote:3txieqft]hmm… yeah it is.

*sidenote – haha that pic of billy on the side :). also, anyone else think that a news website that has ‘on your side’ as its slogan makes it an unreliable source? just a thought…*

So apparently I don't post very often these days
Profile photo of alekflyfire
Member
On Alekflyfire wrote:

From pitchfork
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/n … -an-injury

Pumpkins Concert Death Not an Injury
Photo by Shervin Lainez

After conducting an autopsy yesterday, September 27, Vancouver regional coroner Owen Court determined that the death of 20-year-old Richmond, British Columbia resident Kenny Leung at a Smashing Pumpkins show earlier this week was not the result of moshing or crowd-surfing, according to a report on The Globe and Mail’s website.

The Globe and Mail quoted Court as saying, \"There is absolutely no evidence of any injury and therefore I would say, what you would call moshing or crowd-surfing would have nothing to do with this whatsoever. There was no injury on this young man.\"

In the absence of a trauma injury, the coroner is looking to toxicology tests to provide an explanation for Leung’s death.

The Pumpkins responded to the tragedy with a post on their website:

\"The Smashing Pumpkins were deeply saddened to learn about the passing of a young man who attended their Vancouver show Monday night (September 24). As they and everyone else await news from the investigation into the nature of his passing, the band want to express their sincerest condolences to his family and friends.\"

The band’s tour continues tonight, September 28, in Salt Lake City.

Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

hmm so maybe its got nothing to do with moshing or crowdsurfing…

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

well duh…

Profile photo of bleedingtheorchid
Member
On BleedingTheOrchid wrote:

well duh…[/quote:3oa91fjh]
http://www.thestar.com/article/260715 (One witness told News1130 Radio that the man fell while crowd-surfing and "when he came out, he was lifeless.")

you just never know what to believe huh

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanlinessAnd cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like meIntoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
Profile photo of toad32r
Participant
On toad32r wrote:

At last nights show, there were signs EVERYWHERE…\" NO CROWD SURFING OR MOSHING PERMITTED\"’

Ribbit...Toad-----------------Toads are really underated!!
Profile photo of lilkitn
Member
On lilkitn wrote:

It’s probably a good idea… people always get hurt. But seriously, how do you enforce that?

Profile photo of Superlordspamulon
Member
On Superlordspamulon wrote:

It’s probably a good idea… people always get hurt. But seriously, how do you enforce that?[/quote:2pwakzwg]

moshing?
you don’t. well, not officially. but there are the unspoken rules of the ‘pit however. 1) someone falls over, you WILL pick them up immediately. 2) you find a shoe/shirt etc. on the floor, you hold it above your head so someone can claim. 3) don’t be a cunt. just because you and others will get hurt, doesn’t mean you go in looking for a fight etc… if that makes sense :lol:

thanks to those rules i’ve been generally fine.

but also, to stop surges and crowd surfing, just put up barriers halfway through the crowd, so that the people right at the back arent pushing on the people right at the front.

in the end, it all comes down to how well the place is set up to stop moshing etc. and also other people helping, which they usually do.

So apparently I don't post very often these days

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