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Forum: Collecting Items

Topic: Oceania Live In NYC (watermarked promo) Question

This topic contains 53 replies, has 2,625 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of manillascissor manillascissor 3 years, 3 months ago.

On manillascissor wrote:

Just obtained this promo. Behind the name of the person who received this, there is a number. I think it is not a randomly pressed number, but most likely it indicates how many people have received this watermarked promo. Does somebody has this already? And does your copy have a number too? And if so, what number?

My copy has number 25.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i think both name and number are unique. each number has a different audio watermark. so if this audio ever got leaked, they could have checked the watermark, and if the result was for example 25, then they could easily link it to the blacked out name. because there’s only one cd with the watermark \"25\".

so if you really want to \"protect\" the original receiver of this promo, you should also black out the number, or one might assume he sold it on. (he or she could of course always say that they still own it, but sent scans to spfreaks.com.)

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Yeah, I know what you mean. In fact, it became a ‘tradition’ on SPfreaks to black out these names on watermarked copies, but I think it is not really necessary. On so many promo releases, press kits, etc. we can find names and e-mails etc. However, those names have nothing to do with being the owner of a (watermarked) release. Still I’m curious why this watermarked release not only has a name, but also a number. Anyway, the audio/video on these watermarked releases should not be leaked, that’s what matters most.

A promo stating \"not for sale\" or \"promotional only\" is also a farce, I think. Manillascissor once posted some legal info about that. That was when one of the copies of Machina II vinyl was for sale on eBay and Billy declared in public, on Twitter, he owned the rights, if I remember well.

Anyway again; selling these watermarked promos being the person that received them, involves a risk. What if the new owner leaks the material, and ‘they’ find out?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

nothing will happen, now, since it’s already released. costs a lot of money to sue someone over something so ridiculously inconsequential.

what i posted before is the machina II vinyl copies that were handed out are no longer owned by anyone in the band. it was a gift sent out to whomever for whatever reasons. once it is released as such, rights to ownership of the actual vinyl belong to the current owner, not the owner at inception. if billy & co. could just reclaim all copies whenever they wanted, it’s a pretty goddamn lame release and you’d have to walk on eggshells just to own it. luckily, that is not the case. also, in the spirit of the record itself, it would be completely hypocritical to keep others from selling it. not to make a huge profit – that will happen on it’s own – but it’s their property, they can do whatever they want with it, to include destroying it. also, doesn’t it specifically request that it be bootlegged and passed around the community? what better way than to pass the actual record around (rhetorical). no one has control over what happens with those vinyls anymore, except the owners and sellers.

the same goes with these promos. they are not the property of the record labels, as they like to claim and even print right on the releases. it’s a falsehood, has been tested in court, and they do not own the physical product anymore. rights to the music exist with whoever owns those, but the CD or whatever medium of discussion is property of the owner and can be sold, legally, to anyone. watermarked promos could potentially be useful in determining who \"leaked\" something before a release date, but as it’s three days after the release, it’s really pointless.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Amen to that.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

Still I’m curious why this watermarked release not only has a name, but also a number.[/quote:1grcvq74]
don’t all watermarked releases have a name and a number? some of them only have a number, but most have name and number. for example: watermarked copies of thefutureembrace or zeitgeist.
i think the number is unique, and corresponds with a unique watermark. it’s part of the watermark system.
i guess the name is just there to stress that the cd is linked to them personally, just in case someone would consider leaking the audio.

Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

the number is for the specific audio watermark coding on this particular cd.

Profile photo of jeroendocter
Participant
On jeroendocter wrote:

I think that the number is connected to the person because I got number 21

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

I think that the number is connected to the person because I got number 21[/quote:dp7bmsbd]
This answers my question, thanks!

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

:?

Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

there are 25 audio watermarks for this release.
these might be connected to a specific person, so there might just be 25 watermarked copies.
could be way more though, with just the number indicating the version of watermark used or not even having a meaning…
there might be a watermark, there might be numerous, there might not even be one on the actual disc; it’s more like making sure the recipient gets the idea the material has been tempered with so he/she doesn’t disclose it. if the watermark is really there you can’t teel from just looking at it (or in most case just playing the record).

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Thanks Sven. In fact my question will only be fully answered if we find another copy of this promo with the same number (21 or 25) but with a different name. I think it is very likely that this will happen someday, because it is hard to believe that only 25 of these promos were made in the UK.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

there are 25 audio watermarks for this release.[/quote:1ygbg340]
where does this information come from?

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

found the japanese promo for this release. they’re out there!

in my time of dying
Profile photo of alladnzane
Participant
On alladnzane wrote:

:::: JUST GET MY NUMBER 30 OF OCEANIA LIVE 3 DISCS PROMO SET ::::

Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:
there are 25 audio watermarks for this release.[/quote:a8yynhs2]
where does this information come from?[/quote:a8yynhs2]

because it’s normally like this; i’ve got numerous of these kind of promos for other bands…
there’s a list of the numbers, matched to names… normally that is.
so on mine it say: sven – 45 – the netherlands – name of the medium (for example)
and on press parties i’ve signed the documents to get these promos which included lists with the full distribution list for the netherlands for example.

so: i’d say there are 25 made for a specific list of people / journalists / djs that got one.

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

but where did you get the number 25? i don’t understand. who says there aren’t 50 or 100 watermarked copies?

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

but where did you get the number 25? i don’t understand. who says there aren’t 50 or 100 watermarked copies?[/quote:2onj5w9t]

it’s obviously incorrect, as david has #30. how are we all missing this?

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i wasn’t missing that.

but i’m still wondering where that statement came from?
and if there are more than 25 copies, why sell \"25 watermarked copies\" as a fact? was there a reason to believe there were 25? or was this just plucked out of thin air?

Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

i wasn’t missing that.

but i’m still wondering where that statement came from?
and if there are more than 25 copies, why sell "25 watermarked copies" as a fact? was there a reason to believe there were 25? or was this just plucked out of thin air?[/quote:1guth2dr]

i just meant to say there are (at least) 25 copies.
name + number on the disc…

it’s not just a random number or something.

jeez, sometimes I just am amazed at how many instances we need to get to the point. the initial reply said so – there might be more, there are 25 at least; we know of a number 30; fine, then there at least 30.
jeez… you can only say how many depending on the numbers you have. so now we get to the 30’s range. ok.

it’s only logical, but hey… oh well… jeez…

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

hey, i know what you’re talking about. i also have problems making myself clear on here, every now and then. it even happened in this thread. frustrating, isn’t it?

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i’m a bit surprised that this thread even exists: don’t all the older watermarked releases (the future embrace, zeitgeist) come with a name and a unique number? it’s the same thing, isn’t it?

Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

i’m a bit surprised that this thread even exists: don’t all the older watermarked releases (the future embrace, zeitgeist) come with a name and a unique number? it’s the same thing, isn’t it?[/quote:367ei7e6]

dunno; some i have (non-TSP) are name only…

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

interesting. all my non-sp ones (not that many) come with a number.

so you think some of these watermarked cds don’t actually contain a watermark? and they just say the cd is watermarked to stop people from leaking the album? i really wonder if they sometimes do that. it would be cool to find a watermarked release and prove that it doesn’t contain a watermarked.

i compared different copies of TFE and zeitgeist, and none of them were identical. (i made a perfect copy of the audio with EAC, and compared the audio.) so i believe those watermarked releases definitely contained a unique watermark.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

interesting. all my non-sp ones (not that many) come with a number.

so you think some of these watermarked cds don’t actually contain a watermark? and they just say the cd is watermarked to stop people from leaking the album? i really wonder if they sometimes do that. it would be cool to find a watermarked release and prove that it doesn’t contain a watermarked.

i compared different copies of TFE and zeitgeist, and none of them were identical. (i made a perfect copy of the audio with EAC, and compared the audio.) so i believe those watermarked releases definitely contained a unique watermark.[/quote:29be17jj]
You compared all watermarked releases with a non-watermarked?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."

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