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Forum: Collecting Items

Topic: Price of sealed ’91 Gish vinyl?

This topic contains 22 replies, has 1,031 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of manillascissor manillascissor 3 years, 6 months ago.

On manillascissor wrote:

I’ve been looking for sealed copies of Pumpkins records and am in talks with a local gentleman where I live for a copy of Gish from 1991, never opened.

What do you think a fair price would be? He’s asking $120… I was thinking more along the lines of $80ish.

Thanks,
MayonaiseBoy

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

the german original lp on caroline? i’d definitely get some pics to prove what \"sealed\" means, because i’ve never heard of a sealed one. not to say it doesn’t exist!

if it’s the UK, i guess same story. i haven’t priced gish vinyl in a long time, but i’d say you’re overshooting it just a bit.

$50 seems reasonable (also too high) to me.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

yeah, be careful with \"original 1991 pressings\" of gish.
just like manilla, the only sealed copy i’ve ever seen, is the \"carol 1705\" US repressing.
those aren’t rare or old at all. ten years ago, you could buy them everywhere (they were still in record shops too), and the went for $10-15.

this is the US reissue on caroline (from 2000-ish?): http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … &item=2667
note that this is the ’94 remaster, same audio as hutlpx2. even though the word \"remastered\" is nowhere on the album.

this is the ’94 UK reissue, on Hut, remastered: http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … &item=1891

this is the original ’91 first pressing from Germany, CARLP16: http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … &item=2901
and this is the other ’91 pressing, from the UK, on Hut, HUTLP2: http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … &item=1890

and if you really want to go gish crazy, there’s also a korean pressing available: http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … &item=1104

none of these are worth anything near $120, in my opinion.

Profile photo of MayonaiseBoy
Participant
On MayonaiseBoy wrote:

You guys were both right, after looking into it further it was indeed the US 2000 pressing from Caroline. Thanks for the heads up and keeping the cash in my wallet!!!

Profile photo of jawn till dusk
Participant
On jawn till dusk wrote:

This place rules,honestly!

When I first joined here,I was only in the begining of buying stuff outwith standard releases and a few times I was close to buying things for a large amount that were not worth a great deal.

Always check here first.You’ll never be let down.x

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

you guys are why we are here! symbiotic relationship

so glad to help! (thanks to cool for being more specific)

8)

in my time of dying
Profile photo of MayonaiseBoy
Participant
On MayonaiseBoy wrote:

Ok, so here is what he told/sent me after I mentioned to him the record he was selling appeared to be the 2000 re-issue of Gish. (I sent him the spfreaks link to it)

Greetings. LP also released it in USA in 1991. According to discogs the 2000 version has the word \"remastered\" below the barcode and this one does not. According to my inventory records my store brought in 8 copies bought directly from Caroline in 1991. My database does not say German or USA release but the cost and list price indicated a US release. Also, if you look at pictures of the 1991 overseas version it has an extra box of information to left of barcode. Either way it is a lot of money and if your not comfortable I would probably pass on it. It has been cool chatting and keep on buying vinyl!
Best regards,
Scott

P.S. http://www.discogs.com has a wealth of great information.

What do you all think?

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

Gish was not released on vinyl in the US in ’91. This didn’t happen.
This is the 2000-ish reissue.

I know it’s confusing, because the sleeve tries to look like a 1991 release. But it does in fact contain the remastered audio, even though it doesn’t explicitely say so.
The matrix code on the vinyl even contains the \"HUTLPX2\" id. (How could they have known about the ’94 remastered Gish id back in 1991?)

I definitely agree with the advice: pass on this one.
I don’t want to judge the seller, as I don’t know if he means well or not. Is he lying on purpose, or does he really believe what he’s saying (that they actually ordered this recent reissue back in ’91 – and weren’t able to sell it in the mean time)? To me, it sounds fishy, to say the least. Stay away.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

According to discogs the 2000 version has the word "remastered" below the barcode and this one does not.[/quote:1667z9jq]
For many reasons I don’t always trust Discogs information. The people contributing there are not as ‘freaky’ as our little community. However, I notice one missing link: the matrix codes. It’s not on SPfreaks, shame on us. :oops:

http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=2667

Matrix codes still should be filled in for this item. Anyone? Or is Cool just saying that the matrix code is HUTLPX2 on this upload? ("The matrix code on the vinyl even contains the "HUTLPX2" id.")

Then, MayonaiseBoy, you might also want to ask the seller one last time, to provide these matrix codes. That is, if he happens to have more copies of those 8 ordered and received, with one of them opened. Of course he wouldn’t want to open the sealed copy he is trying to sell… :lol:

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

you don’t need the matrix code to be sure here. the barcode alone sets it apart already. there is no doubt.

for that incomplete entry on spfreaks.com, i would change one of the two release codes to CAROL 1705, which is on the label, and on the spine of the sleeve. (or at least add it to one of the codes.)

the matrix codes are: \"CAR-1705-A HUTLPX-2A-1\", and \"CAR-1705-B HUTLPX2B-1\".

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

for that incomplete entry on spfreaks.com, i would change one of the two release codes to CAROL 1705, which is on the label, and on the spine of the sleeve. (or at least add it to one of the codes.)

the matrix codes are: "CAR-1705-A HUTLPX-2A-1", and "CAR-1705-B HUTLPX2B-1".[/quote:1cqouzq8]
Done.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

excellent.

Profile photo of MayonaiseBoy
Participant
On MayonaiseBoy wrote:

Once again, thanks guys/gals!

I messaged the guy telling him all of the above info, and asked him for the original receipt/invoice from 1991 but haven’t heard anything back.

Have you all looked on eBay lately, there seem to be a number of people representing the 2000 Gish vinyl as that of the Pumpkins 1991 release. Case in point:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMASHING-PUMPKI … 4ad018471d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-Smashing-P … 258990c08a ($287… REALLY?!?!?!)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smashing-Pumpki … 461a86e62f (this is the one that I was in conversation to buy, as we both live in Seattle)

… and at least 5 others.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

I was in a :evil: mood just now, and picked 3 of the most expensive sellers on eBay, and send them all this message.

Hi, I noticed you have this Gish vinyl for sale. I’m sorry to disappoint you, but this is NOT a 1991 release from the US. First of all, there was no 1991 US vinyl release at all. Only in Germany (CARLP 16) and in the UK (HUTLP 2) the Gish vinyl was released in 1991. The next clue is the barcode on the back, top right. That exact barcode was used on the 2000-ish reissue of Gish (which, by the way, contains the remastered tracks from the 1994 Gish release). Lastly, the condition of this sealed product indicates a much younger age. In my humble opinion, a sealed copy of this 2000 release is worth $15-$20, since it is still widely available in brick-and-mortar shops, and on eBay alike. (Few sellers here ask rather extreme prices also, though) However, I’m sure you are willing to change your auction accordingly, right? I’m not a future bidder by the way, since I own this vinyl already. Thanks for listening, Arthur

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

One of them reacted. \"You’re right! I need to change my auction. Thanks.\" He now put the year 2000 in the title and in the description, and lowered the Buy It Now price with almost 80% to $57.75. I’m talking about this auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi … 1221755018 (was previously on $287)

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

good job of that seller. unheard of. :shock:

i’d just like to state that this is not a 2000-ish reissue alone. i started collecting (heavily) in 1996, and that’s when i bought a few copies of this gish vinyl for $9.99. so the remaster has been around for quite some time. i’m assuming 1994/95 or so. there is really nothing that points to it being a 2000-ish release, other than the fact that we assume SD to have been reissued around 2007 as well.

whatever, just, you know, saying…

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

there is really nothing that points to it being a 2000-ish release[/quote:2wwtyagh]
The barcode not having the text ‘Remastered’ (=1994), and no codes like CARLP 16 or HUTLP 2 (=1991) pointing us in other directions. I think we choose 2000 (ish) because nobody remembered seeing it before that.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

yes, i know. just trying to adjust the time scale a bit, due to my own memory. before it completely eludes me. :D

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Thirty3
Participant
On Thirty3 wrote:

Hi

I’m new here and have recently actually bought one of these Gish releases CAROL 1705, barcode- 017046170512.

I wish I read all this a week ago! So what are we saying then? It’s a reissue of around 96 (as manillascissor suggests) ?

My copy is sealed and in mint condition, so I was suspicious that such a copy could be so good after such a long time.

It’s still an official release right? and good to have? (Trying to console myself)

I look forward to contributing and benefiting from these forums from now on.

Regards

Adam

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

Yes, it’s a reissue from ’96 or even later. They were definitely everywhere in the early 2000s. My guess is that the most recent pressings are from that time (even if manilla is correct, and this reissue was first pressed around ’96).
Yes, it’s an official release. And of course it’s good to have. But it’s the most common and least collectable Gish on vinyl. (Or does the recent reissue win that prize now?)

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Hi

I’m new here and have recently actually bought one of these Gish releases CAROL 1705, barcode- 017046170512….I look forward to contributing and benefiting from these forums from now on.

Regards

Adam[/quote:2ens1xn4]

welcome! 8)

Yes, it’s a reissue from ’96 or even later. They were definitely everywhere in the early 2000s. My guess is that the most recent pressings are from that time (even if manilla is correct, and this reissue was first pressed around ’96).
Yes, it’s an official release. And of course it’s good to have. But it’s the most common and least collectable Gish on vinyl. (Or does the recent reissue win that prize now?)[/quote:2ens1xn4]

slight correction, it’s a repressing, not a reissue. even that is debatable, i suppose, as it’s the first US pressing. the UK second pressing is remastered, as is this release, but it’s the first appearance in the US so it’s almost like a first pressing…?

umm, i lost myself. so tired of all these remasters, represses, and reissues. i liked it when it was simple. :lol:

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Simple like a dot. :)

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Simple like a dot. :)[/quote:351m7bba]
dot theory

in my time of dying

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