SPfreaks Forum

 

forum

SPfreaks Forums

Welcome to a place to share thoughts and questions with other SPfreaks. Browse a forum below or start a new thread in a forum

Forum: General

Topic: Puffy Perfect Remixes

This topic contains 23 replies, has 558 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Arthur Arthur 3 years, 4 months ago.

On Arthur wrote:

I asked BC why the Puffy Perfect Remixes weren’t included in the Adore Reissue. He was unaware that it even existed. I showed him the CD I had and it was the first, he said, he had ever heard about it. Thoughts?

http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … S&item=333

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

Thoughts?[/quote:33c4m9mr]
but these have been around for years. how can he not have heard about it? if anything, he should have known about it long before anyone even knew these remixes existed.
i find that hard to believe.

i know he mentioned the ava adore remix in an interview once. i wonder if he ever mentioned the perfect remix. maybe not? hmmmm… very strange.

Profile photo of geofolkers
Moderator
On geofolkers wrote:

He was pretty convincing. I told him they have been on YouTube for awhile. He asked if it sounded like Puffy.

I have never heard him talk about the Perfect Puffy Remixes either. Could be possible he didn’t know :)

Arthur- Which sounds better between the 2 Puffy tracks? Do you think the \"Puffy Perfect Remixes\" were scrapped purposely?

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

the story i heard – it might be just a story, though – is that these puffy remixes weren’t released because they were too expensive. puffy wanted too much money for these.

i believe there’s this 1998 show (in canada? much music?) where they also interview the band, and if i’m not mistaken, that’s where bc mentions the ava adore remix.

so, geo, you own this cd now? if so, is it possible to check if the audio is lossy? (or send me one of the tracks in wav or flac, so i can check?) a rip of this is already out there, but the flac files are lossy. however, the person who spread these was convinced that’s how it is on the cd. (he may not have owned the cd, though.) i’d like to double check that, now that there’s possible access to the original cd.

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

aha, i found it!
http://youtu.be/UWwGBXV07fA?t=26m29s
both remixes are mentioned. so even the fans knew about both remixes existing, long before anyone had even heard the perfect remix.

also check out d’arcy rolling her eyes. hahaha. i guess she doesn’t like puff daddy that much…

Profile photo of geofolkers
Moderator
On geofolkers wrote:

I do own this CD. I think there have only been 2 that have ever surfaced. The copy on this site has a matrix code of- 8121 2138 2185 and the copy I own is – 8121 2138 2188. It makes me think that there were at least 4 copies of this at one point.

In that video BC is pretty sold on the Ava Remix being great. I still wonder if the Perfect Remix was a scrapped idea

I’ve never been much of a file sharing guy. I’ve always wanted an album to physically hold. Let me see if I can figure out a way to send it to you.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

He was pretty convincing. I told him they have been on YouTube for awhile. He asked if it sounded like Puffy.

I have never heard him talk about the Perfect Puffy Remixes either. Could be possible he didn’t know :)

Arthur- Which sounds better between the 2 Puffy tracks? Do you think the "Puffy Perfect Remixes" were scrapped purposely?[/quote:1vxupfhd]
I thought I remembered Billy tweeting about the Puffy remixes when he started working on the Adore reissue, but I couldn’t find it back. So I might be wrong. I have no clue why they weren’t released, the ‘too much money involved’ reason sounds plausible, because these remixes are actually not that bad.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of marigold
Participant
On marigold wrote:

It was posted before in another thread:

https://twitter.com/Billy/status/148134716271366145

Not Perfect remix – just Ava Adore…hmmm

 
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

yeah, he tweeted about it, very recently. him saying he had no idea might be a bit of a misunderstanding. like, he had no idea these promos existed, not the fact that he (puffy) had mixed the songs. it’s quite obvious he knows that, and RECENTLY.

also, fuck puffy. what a joke he is. if these were any good, they’d have been purchased by virgin and released.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

that’s a possiblity, manilla, that he knew about both songs being remixed, but didn’t know about the cd-r.

however, it is clear he knew about the ava adore remix: he mentioned it on twitter and it will be included on the adore reissue. you can’t do that without knowing about the ava adore remix…

but geo’s story is specifically about the perfect remix. and if i’m reading it correctly, billy clearly said that he had no idea this song was also remixed by puff daddy. he says it’s the first time he heard about it, which is a lie (see interview from 1998, where both remixes are mentioned). he must’ve forgotten about it in the mean time.
or could it be, geo, that manilla’s interpretation is correct, and that bc knew about both remixes, but simply had no idea this cd-r existed?

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

also, fuck puffy. what a joke he is. if these were any good, they’d have been purchased by virgin and released.[/quote:13fjlbia]
isn’t this remixing always a record label thing? as in: a band always gets remixed by artists who are on the same label? i bet puff daddy was also on virgin back in 1998.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

It was posted before in another thread:

https://twitter.com/Billy/status/148134716271366145

Not Perfect remix – just Ava Adore…hmmm[/quote:1sac9oje]
Yeah, that’s what I meant, but I didn’t search that long ago. Thanks for finding it! So here we are, Billy clearly knew/knows about the Puffy remixes of both Perfect and Ava Adore, but after all it was decided they are (again) not released, as far as we know now. And I’m having hard times thinking Billy doesn’t know about these (type of inhouse) promos, because that’s what labels always do. Always, for every artist.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

but after all it was decided they are (again) not released, as far as we know now.[/quote:3mchsl2y]
but the ava adore remix will be on the adore reissue in september, right?
or has the tracklist been updated again, now without the ava adore remix?

Profile photo of marigold
Participant
On marigold wrote:

The Perfect remixes were known (in 1998), but now they are not…

Billy’s getting old and forgetful :?

 
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:
but after all it was decided they are (again) not released, as far as we know now.[/quote:2faxw2od]
but the ava adore remix will be on the adore reissue in september, right?
or has the tracklist been updated again, now without the ava adore remix?[/quote:2faxw2od]
Oops, my mistake. You’re right, one of the Puffy remixes of Ava Adore will be released. I’m presuming it’s one the four remixes that we know of.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:
also, fuck puffy. what a joke he is. if these were any good, they’d have been purchased by virgin and released.[/quote:2y1zcv0v]
isn’t this remixing always a record label thing? as in: a band always gets remixed by artists who are on the same label? i bet puff daddy was also on virgin back in 1998.[/quote:2y1zcv0v]

fairly certain he’s been with bad boy records since the early 90s. doesn’t he own the label?

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i think you’re right, manilla.
maybe this is one of the reasons the remixes were never released: they weren’t on the same label, which made it harder to agree.

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

i think you’re right, manilla.
maybe this is one of the reasons the remixes were never released: they weren’t on the same label, which made it harder to agree.[/quote:nwx440u3]

true that

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Sorry guys, this is the biggest crap I heard this year.

Puffy owns Bad Boys, is asked to do some remixes, for some reasons it is decided to not release them in the Adore era. However, now one of the remixes makes it into the reissue track list. So, what does this tell us? Puffy cuts all middlemen and can talk for himself & Billy’s label, then and now, has no issues releasing a Puffy remix. So it weren’t the 2 labels making things (more) difficult.

It was either a cultural (there was a lot going on around Puff Daddy, Notorious Big, Tupac etc. in those years), a financial or an artistic disagreement, I guess. With only one label involved.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Sorry guys, this is the biggest crap I heard this year.

Puffy owns Bad Boys, is asked to do some remixes, for some reasons it is decided to not release them in the Adore era. However, now one of the remixes makes it into the reissue track list. So, what does this tell us? Puffy cuts all middlemen and can talk for himself & Billy’s label, then and now, has no issues releasing a Puffy remix. So it weren’t the 2 labels making things (more) difficult.

It was either a cultural (there was a lot going on around Puff Daddy, Notorious Big, Tupac etc. in those years), a financial or an artistic disagreement, I guess. With only one label involved.[/quote:2ygdgk0q]

it’s not crap. we’re not saying anything other that what you are.

puffy does remixes (either approached or not). remember, billy’s eye demo was originally intended for a collaboration with shaq. :shock:

so, perhaps there is no agreement for whatever reasons, as arthur suggests in ’98 (minus the biggie/tupac feud, which had blown over, and had no bearing to SP at the time).

so now it’s 2014. i’m not sure how that works, but now it’s cool. so whatever. two record labels are still involved and for reasons we will never know, it’s being released.

why is this such a big drama?

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Because I don’t see Puffy say in 1998 \"Sorry guys, I wanted to give you a better price for these remixes, but yeah… My label doesn’t allow it. Let’s try again in 2014, then I’m free from the label that I own anyway.\"

All I’m saying is that it weren’t 2 labels making things extra complicated. Certainly not in this case, because one of the performing artists happens to be the label owner. And the other label clearly has/had the intention to release this Puffy stuff.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

totally agree with Arthur here…

even in 98 money was no issue whatsoever for TSP/Virgin. however: Adore was a bloody mess in terms of promotion and singles. Virgin fucked up big time there. and didn’t invest in the campaign. so technically it’s not about the money and all about the money… as in: not too expensive, but not willing to pay… remember Virgin considered Adore pretty much DOA.

BC was also not in the best of moods concerning the singles issue. there was rumoured to be talk of having the whole of Adore remixed as an artistic statement. I got the impression BC thought of Adore as a possible remix in terms of electronic new wave or triphop or hiphop or even harsher EBM styles and possibly ambient like… I’ve heard and read about several other parties having been asked but not commissioned to do remixes. but no names and no production surfaced, so maybe this idea was scrapped pretty early on.

With Virgin/BC fucking things up in the promo and single department (heck: it’s the worst period in TSP history when you look at b-sides – tadaaah that’s why there’s an immens overkill on the re-issue now: with the other albums BC pretty much released A LOT already, with Adore there’s only a tiny bit) they had Puffy’s remixes pretty much already finished to go product but where to fit those in? they went with mixes that went nicely together – Puffy’s would have been a strange fit. and it’s my belief Virgin didn’t want a standalone Puffy remixes release which could have been an idea.

also Puffy WILL have been paid for the remixes. he did not however get royalties and the like he’d get when these were released, but of course the man didn’t do these for nothing, hoping they might be released. it just doesn’t work like that. exception might be he did those because BC asked him (weren’t the two of them kinda cool/close back then?) somewhat privately to do these remixes, but since these ended up on Virgin cdr’s some contractual stuff must have been cleared with Puffy concerning these remixes at some stage, not for release that is, but just to produce the remixes in the first place.

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i was completely off with the record label remark. i just assumed that often played a role when linking artists with remixers. but now i believe that was not a very accurate assumption.

(on the other hand, in the case where the record label does suggest that one of their artists remixes another, i’m sure there’s not much blah-blah when it comes to releasing these remixes, as it’s all in the same \"family\".)

and the money thing is just a rumour. i think i read that online somewhere. but i have no idea if there’s any truth in it.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

As far as I know, but I’m not an insider of course, labels will contract their artists for a few things only. Mainly to release one or a few albums, or a fixed set of musical material, within a certain timeframe. Remixes, and where to preferably get them, are not mentioned.

Remixes, when they occur, are done under a new contract. Within the same label, or outside the label of the asking artist, it makes no difference. After the remix contract is signed, the remix is done. So yeah, financially things should be rather clear, then only the cultural (maybe I should have called that ‘political’) & artistical reasons remain to object to a remix being released. Like Sven suggested, maybe a financial issue might occur when ‘friends’ start doing a remix project without a contract.

The label’s role in this whole process is that they provide the knowledge and the network to allow things to run smoothly. They wouldn’t deliberately complicate things when they earn their money from a release (they can fuck things up though).

Furthermore, Puffy and Billy were still hot names back then. However, in the years 1996 – 2000 Puffy was also ‘connected’ to quite some killings, shootings and fights in the rap scene. Not sure if Billy/Virgin was too eager to have their name linked to that after all… We can only guess.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

×
 
 
×
 
  • Strength indicator
  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

Already a member? Sign In

×