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Forum: Trading Items

Topic: Question about original 1991 US live tapes

This topic contains 22 replies, has 2,982 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream Cool As Ice Cream 6 years, 10 months ago.

On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

I’m in contact with an American taper that is willing to let go of several tapes and maybe even VHS material (if he can find those VHS tapes back in his immense collection :wink: ) which contain several unreleased Smashing Pumpkins 1991 US shows. At least those tapes below are \"kinda\" confirmed, but he is digging into them again as we speak, so I will probably update this topic soon.

1991-06-16 (or 1991-06-20) Madison (no known recordings so far => his tape is soundboard quality he claims)
1991-08-01 Washington (no known recordings so far => his is an audience recording)
1991-10-16 Madison (2 incomplete recordings known => his is an audience recording, maybe complete)
1991-11-09 Washington (no known recordings so far => his is an audience recording)

My question is, how much is such stuff worth? I mean, I’m very interested in a trade to have that stuff released for free, but should I pay big money for those tapes? I guess not, right? I still remember very well that I found that unknown Paard van Troje, Den Haag recording, done by DJ Cono, but I only paid a few euro for a direct burn on CD with some nice artwork he made for it… So that’s my only reference point in those type of matters. What is the opinion of the other freaks here?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Hey Arthur
Shouldn’t this be in the trading forum?

Secondly, I don’t know about this kind of thing either. I’d say pay what you think they are worth and no more.

in my time of dying
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Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Hey Arthur
Shouldn’t this be in the trading forum?[/quote:31meg03n]
You’re right. Kick.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Member
On Anonymous wrote:

Imho, I wouldn’t pay much either, A. Certainly nice to have them if the chance is there, although you’d have the hassle and risk of trusting someone/s to do the ‘transferring’ for you… Would they then return them to you safely… Or at all.

If Frank Quinto’s still working in the Archives and they actually do release something (zzz!), then most likely the shows will be the rarest of the rare anyway.

As for the VHS tapes, then I’d definitely grab those, could be many Amateur and un-circulated gems hiding away… Still the same problems as with the tapes, though ^. :)

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

The transfer is not the problem, I have a few friends close by that can do that in a pro way. Sven is one of them, and if I trust someone… it’s definately him. And the taper guy is definately a SP live community friendly guy, because he only wants a few bucks to cover the costs for the tapes and shipping. Seems very fair to me! My respects go to him… And to show me he is not bullshitting me, he send several pics of the tapes. Here’s a few of them.

side A
-Blue
-Bury Me
-Jam -> Siva
-Star Spangled Jam
-Window Paine
-Snail (WT)

side B
-Snail
-Tristessa
Encores
-Bowie tease
-I Am One

Another interesting tape contains the show on 1991-11-09 Bender Arena, Washington DC (no known recordings) where Smashing Pumpkins played with Pearl Jam and Red Hot Chili Peppers. He did not write the full setlist on the tape, unfortunately, but we’ll figure that out later…

This makes it all very interesting, right… 8)

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

Again, live recordings are not my specialty, but I think this is cool as shit! \\m/ :twisted: \\m/

in my time of dying
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Member
On Anonymous wrote:

Ohhh, I read it to mean a sale. :P

As it stands now, then why not treat the fella to something as payment, etc. :)

Everything a bonus, is how I look at it, so goodo doings worth owning. :twisted:

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Ohhh, I read it to mean a sale. :P [/quote:3oz1v9al]
Yeah, he said he wanted to sell it, so I thought at first he wanted like 100 bucks or more. But he is a really friendly guy so far, not looking to get rich. :)

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

cool stuff.

i think it says \"snail (cut)\" though, instead of \"snail (wt)\".

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Participant
On Sven wrote:

Arthur:
like i said in private conversation, earlier:
– try to get as much info as you can…!!!

a true taper > especially a SOURCE-taper!, would not mess up dates…
just to name an example of something to check…

scans provided-
all you told me-
> this looks OK to me; seems to be a guy around at the right time, recording stuff, taking note of the songs he knew the titles of, the rest he just filled in with some random notes and all…
>>> i’ve been there and done that and it was just like this!… :)

get the tapes, check the sets, check the known sets from the same tours…
if it’s new (and you’ll know pretty surely quite soon, just by checking this next to the available recordings!) then tadaah!—
otherwise: there’s no real damage done in terms of money or something…

i mean:
> getting a hold of:
http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1993-09-14
http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1993-09-09
http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1992-01-25
involved a leap of faith and some cash…
did prove to be worth the risk taken :)

so….

go ahead and see what happens!

you know you’ve got us to check all the recordings and see if it’s something new or not!

somehow: i find it quite curious the dates mentioned are mostly for unaccounted for shows…
however: same applied to the above mentioned ones i found and those turned out to be genuine…
so: do your thing and let’s hear the stuff!!! :)

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Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

*bows before sven’s presence*

in my time of dying
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Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

i think it says "snail (cut)" though, instead of "snail (wt)".[/quote:1uwpfxox]
Hehe, yeah, makes more sense! :lol:

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

a true taper > especially a SOURCE-taper!, would not mess up dates…

you know you’ve got us to check all the recordings and see if it’s something new or not!

somehow: i find it quite curious the dates mentioned are mostly for unaccounted for shows…
however: same applied to the above mentioned ones i found and those turned out to be genuine…
so: do your thing and let’s hear the stuff!!! :)[/quote:3joqskud]
Well, he messed the dates when writing them by head… Can’t blame him. :wink:

These are the 4 REAL dates he has a recording of:

1990-06-16 (2nd generation recording from a trade, is already out there)
1991-08-04 (unknown date/venue so far, no recordings, but is 99.9% confirmed. see flyer below he send me)
1991-10-16 (2nd generation recording from a trade, is already out there)
1991-11-09 (known date/venue, no recording known so far)

Typically, the tapes with 1991-08-04 and 1991-11-09 are very interesting. So those 2 at least, I will ask him to send to me. I’m very excited to have found a new date/venue + recording + flyer to proof it’s no bullshit… I mean, after so many years and research, we still find a new date/venue like 1991-08-04 Max’s On Broadway, Fells Point, Baltimore (MD), in the Smashing Pumpkins Tour History… Isn’t that cool? And of course a recording for a known date/venue but with no known recordings so far, is very cool too! :wink:

Here’s the flyer for 1991-08-04 he send me.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Participant
On Sven wrote:

http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1991-08-04

http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1991-11-09 (updated with known recording…)

oh man! things sometimes move so fast on the net :)

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Participant
On Sven wrote:

910804 and 911109 surely are the ones to get!!!—

the rest’s out there…
plus: not too special per setlist or whatever.
plus: his copies are from trades and 2nd gen at best…

what i really LOVE!!!—
to see the flyer/poster and to see a new date added to the tourlist, even like 18 years AFTER the event!!!
plus: possibly even hear the show performed then and there, too!!!

amazing! awesome!

good stuff Arthur…! great!
much appreciated, too!

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

oh man! things sometimes move so fast on the net :)[/quote:33ycte09]
Couldn’t help sending that info to my friends of SPFC, SPLRA and Blamo/Siva. :)

Tapes are being send today, taper Omid said. Sven, are you in for a transfer again someday soon? 8)

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:
oh man! things sometimes move so fast on the net :)[/quote:205bmoxe]
Couldn’t help sending that info to my friends of SPFC, SPLRA and Blamo/Siva. :)

Tapes are being send today, taper Omid said. Sven, are you in for a transfer again someday soon? 8)[/quote:205bmoxe]
Question repeated, since I picked up the tapes just after Xmas! 8)

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Participant
On Sven wrote:

yes, that’s ok with me.
just have to see what’s the best way to go about this…
we’ll arrange something :)

Profile photo of Sven
Participant
On Sven wrote:

Counting down the hours before we’re having a little get-together of the Dutch SP old-timers :)))

Plus: we’ll transfer these two shows! :)

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Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Yeah, finally… 8)

All hyped up and ready to go! Fetching Milan from The Hague (Holland Spoor Station) in 1 hour, then another 1 hour drive to you guys. Let’s party! I’m bringing some goodies! :lol:

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Member
On Thom wrote:

I wish I was there. It’d be great to hang out with you folks, Arthur especially. Have a great time!

I’m looking forward to seeing this stuff come out too.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Thanks Thom. 8)

The 1991/08/04 Max’s On Broadway gig is really worthwhile to spread, and Sven will work on that soon. We found a good recording of this gig, with the band rocking the place, which was probably filled with 20 people only. The set consisted of several classics of that era, including I Am My End, Tristessa and Siva. A surprise was the very loud and rocking version of Terrapin! James Iha was sometimes hardly noticable singing this song! :lol:

The other tape was too bad to be worthwhile spreading, unfortunately. I sounded like it was recorded from the toilet or a concrete hallway close to the arena, but still with the mike hidden under a pillow, or something… Really, you don’t want to listen to this, it’s crap. :(

But besides this, it was a GREAT gathering, boy oh boy! 5 guys @ Sven’s place, with enough cds, beer, vinyl, coffee, beer, coca cola, art & music books, and more beer, to fill a whole day until it was 03:00 in the night somewhere. Sven, you’ve been a great host!

One of the guys getting goose bumps all over when I played Soma from the Smashing Pumpkins 20th Anniversary Tour cd set on Sven’s stereo for the group was a remarkable moment… :wink: And we did another very remarkable discovery. The Cherub Rock Townhouse Mark Goodier promo (pressed 1 month before the Siamese Dream album was released) was brought to the gathering, and it was played several times… Turned out it is a different, but way better mix then the album version! They should have brought out the whole album in this \"pump up the bass club mix\" version, because it is so much more straight-in-your-face music now… 8)

Sven will provide me later with the more tech details what is different exactly, as it is not just a decibel boost-up mix, is what I only know so far. But it sounds great, let me tell you! Pumping Cherub Rock in this version from your stereo is really not a punishment…

Edit: and if this wasn’t enough, I got a present too. A French plastic FNAC window promo ad thing for Machina. It’s absolutely stunning, and believe me, the pic below doesn’t do justice to the real thing….

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

cool beans!

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