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Forum: General

Topic: The beginning of the beginning of the beginning

This topic contains 21 replies, has 1,256 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream Cool As Ice Cream 5 years ago.

On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

This confirmation is what I have been waiting for almost my whole SP life. I always hated to see & read 1988 as the start year of Smashing Pumpkins, because it is NOT true. :evil:

\"@Billy says July 9 1987 is the beginning of the @SmashingPumpkin :)\"

http://twitter.com/SPfreaks/status/2127 … 14/photo/1

So Wikipedia, f*ck it.

\"The Smashing Pumpkins are an American alternative rock band from Chicago, Illinois, formed in 1988.\"

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Smashing_Pumpkins )

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

yeah, eat shit, wikipedia. get your facts straight. last time i edited wikipedia, it was changed in 1 hour or less. hahah

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Oh well, Smashing Pumpkins themselves sometimes made the same mistake for some reason…

This is an official 2000/2001 era shirt.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

billy has changed the history of the band for years. the band only started in 1988, so he didn’t have to consider/talk about ron roesing as an ex-member of the band.

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

another point of view: the start of the smashing pumpkins as the four of them.
both d’arcy and jimmy joined in 1988, if i’m not mistaken.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

billy has changed the history of the band for years. the band only started in 1988, so he didn’t have to consider/talk about ron roesing as an ex-member of the band.[/quote:1q19xk7y]
True, that’s why Nothing Ever Changes will probably always remain a somewhat vague Smashing Pumpkins release.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

another point of view: the start of the smashing pumpkins as the four of them.
both d’arcy and jimmy joined in 1988, if i’m not mistaken.[/quote:35bdt2zn]
Might be true, but when James Iha and Billy Corgan recorded the infamous I Fall track in December 1987 with a drum machine (as confirmed by BC himself), and when Billy put that track on the Gish/Moon Tape, that made it VERY CLEAR for me that the Smashing Pumpkins history dates back to the year 1987.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

i have no idea where you get that date.
all i can see is a link to a tweet with a picture.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Please stop using crappy non-Microsoft products then.

This is what the link shows.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

twitter is blocked here. i only use microsoft products!

spfreaks tweeting that 1987 is the start of sp doesn’t confirm much to me. i wouldn’t expect them to say anything else.
where does that come from? what’s the source? and what’s that picture doing there? what does that prove or confirm?
i’m sorry. i’m a bit confused.

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

LOL, sorry… I didn’t know Twitter was blocked at your side! :D

That was a tweet by Geo who runs the SPfreaks Twitter account. He immediately quotes Billy during a speech(?) last night on that cruise ship in Chicago, and takes a pic at (almost) the same moment I’m sure. That’s what I make out of it.

But I also want to know more about the context why Billy said such thing, why he is so detailed in this start date. Was it a question from the audience? Did Billy want to set something straight by himself?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

maybe it was the date of their first gig under the name \"smashing pumpkins\".
that doesn’t necessarily mean it was when the smashing pumpkins \"started\", unless – maybe – they came up with that name right then, because they needed one for the gig.

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Moderator
On geofolkers wrote:

Billy said this last night talking how the band has been around almost exactly 25 years. That was a direct quote date from him last night :)

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Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

I don’t think they played a gig that early… But I might be wrong. Smashing Pumpkins was mostly James Iha and Billy Corgan jamming around at home (or in some studio maybe) a few times, and then at some point they decided to call it a band (at that date mentioned in 1987?) and move forward with it. Ron Roesing joined 1 or some jam sessions around 1987/early 1988, even a demo tape came from that session(s), and only when they were booked (is Chicago 21 venue on July 9, 1988, really the first gig they did? Is it a coincidence that Billy mentioned a date EXACTLY 1 year before this date?) they decided to play without Ron, but still use the drum machine. The rest is history… But still so many questions…

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

Billy said this last night talking how the band has been around almost exactly 25 years. That was a direct quote date from him last night :)[/quote:l567i08d]
OK cool, thanks Geo! I’m sooo happy you picked that up! But what made Billy decide to see this specific date as the start date? As Cool suggested, did they play a gig then under the Smashing Pumpkins name? Or was that the date when the name Smashing Pumpkins was suggested for the James/Billy/(Ron/drum machine?) band?

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Moderator
On geofolkers wrote:

I can’t be much more specific. He just says the date is the start of the pumpkins. I will keep a look out of a video of that to show up. I know people are working on getting those out there right now. There should be a lot of video and it was pro shot. I got the guys card. The people that shot it have a web address. Might be useful if your interested :) darkroomdemons.com

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

Or was that the date when the name Smashing Pumpkins was suggested for the James/Billy/(Ron/drum machine?) band?[/quote:3rfdzjda]
how would one remember an exact date for such an event? i doubt this is the case.

the fact that they played a gig on the same date in 1988, makes me think that either we’ve got that date wrong (unlikely), or that billy mixed up that date with 1987. (omg! maybe he meant 1988! hahaha, arthur. the look on your face! :lol: )

Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

this is another take on it:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= … =3&theater

Song 4: Bleed (with Jeff)! Played at the first SP show on July 9, 1987.[/quote:16kj4tc8]

Profile photo of Arthur
Moderator
On Arthur wrote:
Or was that the date when the name Smashing Pumpkins was suggested for the James/Billy/(Ron/drum machine?) band?[/quote:181sw6r7]
how would one remember an exact date for such an event? i doubt this is the case.

the fact that they played a gig on the same date in 1988, makes me think that either we’ve got that date wrong (unlikely), or that billy mixed up that date with 1987. (omg! maybe he meant 1988! hahaha, arthur. the look on your face! :lol: )[/quote:181sw6r7]
Naaah, then we have to set the recording of I Fall to December 1988, and that is very hard to believe also. They did not play with a drum machine anymore, and D’Arcy and Jimmy already joined Smashing Pumpkins long before that… So I’m still going for 1987 as the start year of Smashing Pumpkins. And yeah, it is quite a coincidence that July 9 is also the date we know so far for the Chicago 21 gig. But in 1988. Or 1987 after all? Hmmm…

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
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Participant
On Sven wrote:

he must have mixed up the year.

Bleed was played in Chicago 21 for sure.

it’s no coincidence he played it yesterday.

and yes: TSP did exist in very early form since late 1987.
BC + JI with drum machine and sometimes Ron Roesing.

Chicago 21 was just JI on guitar and BC on bass with drum machine.

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Moderator
On Arthur wrote:

he must have mixed up the year.

Bleed was played in Chicago 21 for sure.[/quote:3fv3iyov]
Exactly my thoughts, currently.

Billy Corgan, December 2, 2008 : "Not everyone understands our death trip. But you do. And that's what matters."
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSei_qydqp8

i also think billy mixed up the year of that first show.
but i also think that arthur is right, and that the pumpkins already existed/recorded in 1987.

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