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Forum: General

Topic: What really happened between the pumpkins in their break up?

This topic contains 12 replies, has 1,951 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Riverandsky Riverandsky 8 years, 8 months ago.

On Riverandsky wrote:

I heard Billy said its james fault and i’ve heard James said it was billy’s fault

What do you think?

Your basic person wants to talk about material, culture, internet culture. I think about God, Cats, Nature- Billy Corgan
Profile photo of Riverandsky
Member
On Riverandsky wrote:

James said in an article I read – I know I should list exactly which one, but it’s easy to find if you do a James Iha search….James said \" the only one who could break up the band, was Billy\". However, as much as we love to speculate, there’s no way of knowing unless someone comes forward with some insider info.

"I didn't find Jesus, he's been here the whole time." - BC
Profile photo of Cool As Ice Cream
Moderator
On Cool As Ice Cream wrote:

I think most of it is clear.

If we can believe Billy, D’arcy was fired, because they could no longer count on her. In the beginning, they said she left the band, possibly to protect her. But maybe it’s a little bit of both. This is vague, but it seems that it was messy, so I understand that nobody feels like giving all the details.

James wanted to leave the Pumpkins. And that was basically it. Billy (and Jimmy?) decided that they could not continue the band without James, so they were going to break up. And James agreed to stay until the end, instead of leaving right away.
Now deciding who’s to blame for the breakup is rather useless. If Billy says it’s James’ fault, one can understand that: if James hadn’t decided to leave, they probably would have continued. But when James says that Billy is the one who made the decision, he’s also right: James only decided to leave, he didn’t say they should break up, Billy made that decision.
(Would anyone have preferred it if James stayed part of a band he no longer wanted to be in?)

Somewhere I’d love to know every little detail about it. Their relationships, what was said when, bring on the documentary already!
But I don’t really need to. I believe the above is basically how it went, and I don’t demand to know more. This wasn’t the nicest episode in the life of the Pumpkins, so I respect it if they want to keep most of it to themselves. It’s also nice of them, I think, that they didn’t bring the mud slinging to a peak. Billy said some things that shocked, but if you put it into perspective, it wasn’t all that bad. Probably just (a part of) the truth.

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

I always just saw it as a collective, \"we’re done\". D’Arcy was already gone. Jimmy had just returned. Seems like things were being forced during Machina.

I always saw James as the most stable of the band. He did a solo project, then came right back. D’Arcy was kicked out or left (I can’t remember), Jimmy was in and out, and Billy was in the middle of all of it. Granted, he was the leader, so he kinda put himself there, in those shoes.

I just see it as everyone looked around and said we need a break. Forever? Maybe. I mean, they recorded Machina knowing the break up was coming afterwards. So everyone in the band knew it was kinda over at that point. Does that make sense?

in my time of dying
Profile photo of Pipoka
Member
On Pipoka wrote:

it was nice to read your post cool as ice cream, because i think the same way…

Profile photo of Kuumar
Member
On Kuumar wrote:

Thank you so much for the posts, any ounce of pumpkins knowledge is soaked into me and i feel great knowing everyones suggestions. Please post more if you think otherwise :D

Your basic person wants to talk about material, culture, internet culture. I think about God, Cats, Nature- Billy Corgan
Profile photo of Riverandsky
Member
On Riverandsky wrote:

I think, honestly, everyone was beyond burnt out. Touring as much as they did, Billy was the only one with the drive to continue….and clearly even he had issues and doubts about what to do next.. James has always been open about his different musical tastes (country, etc etc) and if you read his interviews carefully as well as the video from the time, I think he was tired of Billy’s \"machine\" and the extreme touring. He hated the spotlight. It was clear on the Storytellers performance when Billy asked if James had any stories to tell, James said \"no, I just wanna rock.\" I think James was just tired of it all. And D’arcy, if you delve into her background, was afflicted with some serious depression/drugs issues. Jimmy was clean at that time and maybe had the most energy…What I really want to know is what happened with Paz Lenchantin and Billy Corgan? They were an item…he stole her away from A Perfect Circle….hehe….I know that’s not NEARLY as important as the other matter…but I’m just curious… I remember reading that, when asked about the disappearance of the APC bassist, he says she ran off with a bald-headed smashing pumpkin and Paz was suffering from meat deprivation as she is a vegan. Hehehe
So someone please school me.
Thanks!!!

"I didn't find Jesus, he's been here the whole time." - BC
Profile photo of anonymous
Member
On Anonymous wrote:

I would think it would be hard to speak up about what really happened. Who would it benefit? No one really. Especially now. If D’arcy got fired by Billy, then I am sure there was a legitimate reason for it. He has said something along the lines of, she was the moral authority in the band…and if that’s how he thought of her, something happened for him to fire her. If she left then maybe she just didn’t want to be in the band anymore. As for James, well nice to know he stayed, but if his heart wasn’t into the band, I don’t blame him for leaving. Why on earth would we want that for an artist? If James were to have stayed and the band kept rolling don’t you think they would be less desirable in the fact of James not giving his ‘all’ to the band that he wasn’t into anymore? Kinda like people who stay in their jobs that they hate and chose not to perform as efficiently as they know they could. Happiness makes yourself perform better.

Profile photo of manillascissor
Keymaster
On manillascissor wrote:

I agree Reggae. I feel the same way about my own job. A lot of the times, when the pressure of having to do it vs. wanting to do it is alleviated, I actually enjoy it, like, 10-fold more.

in my time of dying
Profile photo of anonymous
Member
On Anonymous wrote:

I agree Reggae. I feel the same way about my own job. A lot of the times, when the pressure of having to do it vs. wanting to do it is alleviated, I actually enjoy it, like, 10-fold more.[/quote:172a5l85]
and that is how everyone should feel, but it doesn’t happen to everyone like that because people short themselves on their ability to be truly happy. Some not even knowing their is something better…

Profile photo of doubtful-della
Member
On Doubtful-Della wrote:

It’s kind of like a divorce… the parents don’t want to run their kids through the mud so they only give them small details as to why it’s happening…. and guess what, they will never get re-married because they weren’t happy and it just wasn’t working.

Although we might go against the new mother and father in law, and wish our biological parents were back together… it’s never going to happen, and it’s for the best.

Besides Ginger and Jeff rock the house!

Profile photo of jawn till dusk
Participant
On jawn till dusk wrote:

This is my ‘in a nutshell’ theory.

I think that the demise of the band stemmed from D’arcy being fired because of her drug dependancy,which led to James not wanting to be involved(since his true love was no longer there).

Billy probably looked at this as the band falling apart and coming to an end and called it a day.

Obviously speculation. :wink:

Profile photo of Riverandsky
Member
On Riverandsky wrote:

This is my ‘in a nutshell’ theory.

I think that the demise of the band stemmed from D’arcy being fired because of her drug dependancy,which led to James not wanting to be involved(since his true love was no longer there).

Billy probably looked at this as the band falling apart and coming to an end and called it a day.

Obviously speculation. :wink:[/quote:1y1ie0h0]

Too true for words. I think you hit the nail on the head. You know that James said he still loved D’arcy even in a 2000 show – and he said it onstage. So when she left, I’m sure it was like – what the hell am I doing in a band that is not my musical taste, and none of us are getting along…and this is not my vision…and of course my true love left and is falling into a pit of despair? Yes – speculation indeed. However, if you closely read all the interviews and everything said about the breakup, this is pretty much what can be inferred.

Good post man!

"I didn't find Jesus, he's been here the whole time." - BC

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